" In New York City I know of least 1 case in which a 12 year old was tried and convicted as an adult of murder.

Granted kids today are MUCH more savvy then kids of perhaps those born in the late 50's.

Drug dealers in the big cities routinely use them ( minors) as couriers, enforcers and even as hitmen and women! Hard to believe? Sorry its the state of things as they are.

Teen - Agers are also under peer pressure, and we as a society have failed NOT just the victims, but the perps as well.

When we stop expecting teachers to be babysitters, when we stop trying to legislate discipline of a child, when social services realizes there is a big line between abuse and discipline, THEN and ONLY then can we suggest an age of 16.

How can you really put an age on trying a minor as an adult when 12 year olds are hooking in the big cities and are grandmothers by the age of 35?

The correct age? How does one get at that figure? 15?, 16?, 17? At 18 we can send our boys and girls to die in war, however, we will NOT treat them as adults if they should want to come home and have a drink in a bar after having a hard month of killing people. We need to stop eating our young! "

" Yes, no matter what the age; if they knowlingly commit murder they should be held accountable for their actions. And being tried as an adult may give the victim's family peace of mind that their loved one's murderer will receive the maximum penalty. "

" No! Minors should not be tried as adults. Change the age laws for minors, if need be - but, until then, they are still minors. "

" I know of 14-year-olds that are more mature that 21-year-olds. This is a sticky topic. I'm actually stuck. Hmmmm...

Ideally (meaning it will never happen), I'd like to see each perpetrator evaluated by their previous actions. Are they staying in school and how are they doing? Do they have a juvenile record and for what? Have they ever done anything positive for the community out of their own free will? Have they made solid plans for their life or are they living as a teen day-to-day? There are so many ways to tell a young adult from an older child.

Two 15-year-olds. One is a straight-A Eagle Scout who saved his little brother from drowning and has made his neighborhood a much better place through community action. Has a couple colleges recruiting him. Someone beats up his dad over road rage, and the next day in a fit of anger he grabs a rifle and kills the bully. The other 15-year-old is a school drop-out, lives in a bad neighborhood, not the sharpest knife in the drawer, likes cowboys, thinks he might want to join a gang. Finds his brother's gun under the bed, decides to practice his quick-draw like he saw on Gunsmoke. Shoots at a poster on his bedroom wall and kills his neighbor watching TV next door.

Which one gets tried as an adult??? And why??? "

" (Part 3) Should we send teens to prison? I think Taiwan has a better solution, flogging! Should we try youthful offenders as adults? If they choose to engage in adult level crime, give them adult level time. "

" (Part 2) I once worked in a prison system in another state. One thing you learn from that experience is that while the established gang members are dangerous, it is the “Wanna-be’s” that you really have to watch out for. When you see these –uh- young people walking around with their pants hanging well below the waist line, these are “Wanna-be’s”. The pants hanging off their hind end is homage to the fact the when a person is arrested and taken to jail, belts, shoe strings, and anything else that could easily be used as a weapon are confiscated. So if the pants don’t fit right in the first place, they will be hanging down.

When these –uh- people get arrested, it is the same in their mind as if your or I were to get a raise or promotion. They see jail time as a major accomplishment in their lives. And once they are in there, it is Crime University. These –uh- characters learn all sorts of new tricks that they in turn use on the streets when they are released. So when we send these teens to adult prison that is exactly what they are aiming for. We just give them a pat on the back for what they see as a job well done. Personally, I would like to see a return to chain gangs and work camps. Keep them so busy they don’t have time to trade skills. Make the work very public and humiliating. Take the sense of accomplishment out of the equation. Then you might have a slightly more effective justice system. "

" (Part 1) When kids get to about 12 years old, they pretty well have a grasp of the concept that life is finite. A twelve year old generally know that once you are dead, you don’t get back up and start the game over. What they might not grasp is the collateral affect that death has on those who knew the deceased. But when young thugs take the gangland path to the point of actually picking up a knife or gun, they have already made some harsh choices in their young lives.

When these “kids” graduate from fist fights to stabbings and shootings, the chances are pretty good that they have already had serious encounters with law enforcement. What’s more, these encounters proved not to be any kind of deterrent to future criminal activity. In fact, each arrest is viewed as an achievement, something to be proud of. "

" Good examples, MarshaMarsha. Both were immature decisions made by underaged minors. All too often, similar decisions are made by immature adults.
The difference in culpability is in the age of the individual, not in the action itself. "

" Should minors be tried as adults in murder cases?

Absolutely "

" Pursuant to the the California Penal Code, juveniles who commit certain crimes, among them armed robbery and murder, shall be tried as adults.(right, 707jng?). The impact of these crimes is devestating, regardless of the perp's age. And that is why they must be tried, convicted, and serve time as adults - the Douglas brothers, who also threatened a witness, have been (and will be) housed at Juvy until age 18, so they can influence young people from all over the county. How special!!!! Lock 'em up! "

" I beleave the question answers it's self. "

" Marshamarsha, neither of those teens should be tried as an adult.

A minor should be tried as an adult if that person has, up to the point the crime occurred, either lived a life that disregards all of societies laws or commits a crime so heinous that either the death penalty or life in prison are options as adult punishment. "

" My answer is no! A minor should be tried as a minor in murder cases. Isn't that the only possibility? However, the punishment MUST fit the crime. Maybe there will be some sort of "second chance" law eventually. "

" Here is an idea for a second chance law...MANDATORY conscription to the armed forces..IF, they survive 20 years..then they are allowed to come back to society...Did I mention they get to do all special forces jobs? All the dangerous dirty disavowed stuff? Its the ONLY way any of them can attempt to make up for the damage and harm they've done. "

" Age is a convenient way of separating adults from children. However, some "children" are way more adult than some "adults", and vice-versa. With that in mind, shouldn't some adults be tried as children? The system needs some overlap and flexibility to assess the acused and mete out justice as appropriate. "

" ADark1: The military requires discipline. Special Forces only selects the most disciplined, intelligent, and physically fit to serve in their ranks. That’s why our people kick –uh– donkey butt and prevail against overwhelming odds. So I am not sure these punks would even make it passed basic training. Military service requires putting country before self, not self before all else.

In the 1970’s, when recruitment was at an all time low and the wounds of Vietnam were still very fresh in the public consciousness, judges were offering offenders the option of joining the military (typically Army or Marines) rather than serving jail time. I can tell you from having served during this period that the class of service person that made up much of the military were the lowest common denominator. They were more likely to fight amongst themselves than fight an enemy force. This is why there was a purge in the late 80s. The military stopped taking societal rejects and opted to screen for only the best candidates.

I am all in favor of a conscripted military though. Allow a minimum one year of service after completing basic training. Those that choose to only serve the minimum can complete basic and serve in unskilled support roles. Those that choose to commit to three or more years can go on to advanced training and serve in skilled positions. Those who only serve the one year minimum would not be eligible for veteran’s educational benefits or any other preferences.

As for young punks committing serious crimes, Take them for a little vacation in Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Syria, Ethiopia, you get the idea, and don’t give them any passports. They would be certain to do something dumb over there and then our problem would be solved for us. "

" hey Skil M? ,

Sorry to lead you off in the WRONG direction..I'm thinking more like the "Dirty Dozen" You know suicide missions?

As far as military discipline I am more then well aware of what THAT entails..Perhaps next time we can sit down and trade "war Stories" "

" Marshmarsha - good examples, but I also agree with Paddy. Your two examples (to me) seem like a kid reacting in shock and another kid who was just playing around.

A minor that is contemplating murder most certainly should be tried as an adult especially if they are toting a weapon around with the intent to intimidate others. Not all underage murderers have previous records, which is why the circumstances surrounding the murder are so important. "

" The thing is that science will tell you that teens are fundamentally different from adults in the way their brains work until around the age of 18-21. They lack experience, judgment, and appreciation of the consequences of their actions. That is why we don't let them drive, drink, vote, sign contracts have consensual sex, gamble, etc.

SkipM: 12yo DON"T really understand the difference between right and wrong at that age. All they can do is tell you what the rules are. Not quite the same thing.

It's one of the reasons children are used in war.

The crimes committed by the young demand a response, but it needs to be an effective response. Crime and punishment won't work, kids think they are invincible and don't think through their actions. Kids put in the adult prison system become trained and hardened criminals, a problem some years down the road.

I find it hard to believe that in this day and age our only response is to throw away a young life. Imagine being 15 or 16 and in prison (it happens in this country). Not much chance for you when (or if) you get out.

If that is our only response, we should go back to hanging ten year olds for stealing bread. It would be less cruel. "

" a teacher -

I can still remember my teen and even my pre-teen years. The difference between right and wrong was very clear to me. I wouldn't have imagined doing anything that would have found me in jail because I was taught how to respect myself and others.

Young minds do work differently, they are more easily shaped and molded. If that development and conditioning has turned them into a vicious criminal then that isn't going to change in a few years.

Only the vicious young animal is being tried as an adult, not every teenager that steals a car, defaces a building or burgles a home. I'd like to see not only the child take full responsibility for their actions but I'd like to see the parents of every child caught for any crime pay restitution as well. "

" Paddy, the only thing I can tell you is to read up on it. Try the "Primal Teen", it's a good introduction into the research into the brains of teenagers. It's an eye opening book. "

" age is no excuse!! Especially after age 12. Kids know what they are doing is right or wrong. I further believe that any kid over the age 8 that murders another should be put to death. Also when a child steals, a hand should be removed. We as a society are too Easy on kids and adults and thats why we have the problems we do. "

" Marsha, I think they both should, However the Eagle scout should be held more accountable since he willfully out of rage killed someone, where the other boy is just stupid and obviously not as mature as the eagle scout. "