" You are so wrong. The homosexuals wanting equality has already caused real stupid laws to be passed. Look at the bill our governor has signed some months ago where any child from kindergarten up can use the bathroom of the opposite sex if they feel like they are the oposite sex. Our country was founded on biblical principles so don't thumb your nose at our foundation and foundating fathers. "

" I wish the NVR Editorial Board had the stones to attach their name or the name of the author to this editorial.

However, at least they came down on the side of equal protection under the law.

~Ruff "

" I agree - No on 8. All citizens should be treated the same under the law -- churches can make their own choices. "

" kbf - Assuming you count yourself as a 'Christian' could you show us where in the Bible you find a requirement to segregate bathrooms?

And if you can find such a passage, why would the civil government be bound to enforce laws based on a religious text?

Most people can remember the huge peer pressure on kids in school to conform to 'norms' of behavior.

Therefore it would be an act of courage for a child who thinks they are a female in a male body to use the female restroom, considering the potential for ridicule and harrassment by other kids.

Transgender kids do not need a law restricting where they go to the bathroom. Both sexes will end up using a stall, think about it.

The even smaller number of transgender kids who want to use a bathroom appropriate to their mental image of themselves is an even more microscopic threat to 'Tradition' than the much more numerous gay people who want to marry.

But at least the talk of churches being legally sued to allow gays to marry in them if the church objects has stopped.

I am always just a bit surprised that some, not all, religious folks feel the need to attempt to force people to obey their faith's rules.

If gays aren't welcome in a church, there are churches that will make them and their wedding plans welcome. The ability to go to a church that welcomes you, or just stay home and watch football, is called religious freedom.

People of faith can demonstrate their unshakeable failth by allowing other people the same constitutional freedom of religion they enjoy.

~Ruff "

" Jesus loved everyone.

I don't want teachers to promote intolerance to children.

I'm voting "No" on 8. My husband, too, he'll vote "No" on 8. And when my children are old enough to vote, if they vote they way they've been taught at home, they'll vote "no" on discriminatory legislation. We don't fear civil rights. I do fear theocracies. "

" Look at the big picture here…how the government system works and listen to what the advocates behind Prop 8 espouse….they are demanding all early education be gender neutral, that all educational books specifically include homosexual lifestyles…..mandatory same sex-sex indoctrination beginning no later than early adolescent…..mandatory gender neutral, gay & lesbian High School education and campus support groups with tax payer funded professional counseling…..gee….who needs parents? Hollywood education….

The ‘mantra’ here ties directly to prop 8, once gay/lesbian marriage is legal ‘they’ need to ‘rescue and promote’ with ‘their’ share of the public education budget…….it wasn’t that long ago their definition of equality was legalizing same sex sex…..’give an inch and take a mile.’ They already have special status in employment and housing….there are many gay and lesbian business owners who would never hire or rent to a straight person…..try doing that to a lesbian or gay man based on lifestyle….I

What consenting adults do with each other is their business….the problem here is there is no way to vote Yes on 8 without approving an intrusion into the public school system….that’s how it works here on the left coast….our public schools no longer have any sense of the line between education and parent responsibility….and for that more than a little credit goes to the gay/lesbian advocates. "

" I personally don't care what people do in the privacy of their own homes. But since one political party seem bent on mandating sex ed in kindergarten...

1.) Just because people have the right to do it DOESN'T mean the representative government of the people has to encourage it as a 'best practices' method.

2.) Not all ways of doing things are equal and beneficial for society...and the way we decide in a democracy is MAJORITY VOTE. I seem to recall we voted on this before, and the majority was ignored... "

" I meant no on #8.…oh well….watching Barney Frank on CNBC will do that to ya…. "

" Freedom of religion....ring a bell?

Not everyone holds the same religious believes and so it is wrong to force strict religious arguments against proposition 8.

I have noticed that today's generation is more open minded and willing to accept unlike older people who stick to what they believe to be true and not budge a bit. Proposition 8 is only furthering the rights of gays and lesbians, the rights they deserve. Anyone who has read a history book knows the consequences of segreagation, they're not acceptable.

Think of it this way: if you feel "reverse racism" and feel stuck, then think of what a gay and lesbian couple feels. Be openminded, it's 2008!

California has the opportunity to become a leader of social justice, which in the end benefits everyone. "

" Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve. "

" Caligula was a great model for the left coast, eh...??? Rent the movie and realize what happens to society when "anything goes".... Lefties will enjoy it.... "

" glenroy:

First of all, what "special status in employment and housing" are you refering too? If you are refering to the laws that prevent an employer or landlord from discriminating against you by not hiring you, firing you or not renting to you because of your sexual orientation, gender, race or religon, those laws were put in place to protect everyone, including you, not just gays.

Secondly, if you do in fact know a gay business owner (which I find highly unlikely that ANY gay person would admit to knowing you) that is discriminating against straight people, you should report them to the appropriate agency to be investigated.

Thirdly, I find it interesting that someone who thinks he is so knowlegable on this subject, cannot even get the facts straight, (no pun intended) "listen to what the advocates behind Prop 8 espouse….they are demanding all early education be gender neutral, that all educational books specifically include homosexual lifestyles…..mandatory same sex-sex indoctrination beginning no later than early adolescent…..mandatory gender neutral, gay & lesbian High School education and campus support groups with tax payer funded professional counseling…" HUH? The 'advocates' of prop 8 want to outlaw gay marriage!

And finally, WHY are you watching Barney Frank on CNBC??? I think you would be much more content and calmer if you stick to watching Bill O'Reilly on Fox. (of course, that is probably where you got all these bogus "facts" in the first place!) "

" Let's face it, people, the folks who are afraid of 'teh gay' are scared. This is new territory for them, and I suppose if you thought you didn't know any gay people a person could be frightened.

However, there are people who are openly gay, such as Rachel Maddow, who are not nearly as scarey as the folks who 'dress strange' on Gay Pride day.

All of the governmentally enforced social prejudices have one by one been rolled back by actions from below.

For example, NO politician got up first and said, "It's time to put an end to Jim Crow", until the government had to choose between peaceful change from the likes of Martin Luther King, or the more radical change agents like Malcolm X.

Change to democratic government comes from the bottom up, not from the top down.

After a while, the rights of gays and lesbians are going to be another unremarkable part of living in California and eventually living in the USA.

When the intolerant die off, nobody will be left to be angry that gay people can get married, visit their loved ones in the hospital, inherit, or cover their family members with insurance... same as everybody else.

And frankly, my wife and I think that is going to be great!

~Ruff "

" Well put, Ruff!

I dont even know why I bother to rebuff some of these commenters, I am not going to change their minds.

I think what concerns me the most is not that they have an opposing opinion, it is the outright hatred that is expressed against a group of fellow human beings that simply want to be able to express their commitment, love and loyalty to each other with the same legal rights as everyone else.

There are so many bad things going on in the world today, that I find it difficult to understand why they dwell on this issue. "

" It may be a majority vote, but the majority's not always right.

Interracial marriage, anyone? "

" insecurities lead to phobias

in this case homophobia. "

" You are wrong, saying 'Proposition 8 ... would do nothing to change curriculum." Just because it says nothing about schools does not mean there will be no impact. Public schools are required to teach whatever the latest politically correct dogma is, whether you call it Health Ed or Social Science. "

" You said "Jesus loved everyone."
Not quite right. Jesus clearly despised the Pharisees. He also taught people to hate sin and sinful acts, and to hate those who kept people from following him, see Luke 14:26. "

" How the lefties love their Orwellian Newspeak!
The word Phobia once meant 'fear of'. But they have distorted the plain meaning of that word so that 'homophobia' is now applied as a pejorative description of anyone who dislikes homosexuality. "

" I would say a quick glance at the anti-prop 8 statements does show a large dose of what a reasonable person would say was homophobia....look at some of the arguments presented...if that isnt a fear of homosexuals what is? "

" anti same sex marriage arguments, not anti prop 8 arguments.....not enuff coffee too early in the monring "

" "Just because it says nothing about schools does not mean there will be no impact. Public schools are required to teach whatever the latest politically correct dogma is, whether you call it Health Ed or Social Science. "

I teach in public schools. That is complete and total elephant poop. It's the same lies and exagerations you guys foist on us when this comes up. You are full of "it". "

" CommonSense. You are correct, the majority of those who voted in 2000 voted for "the protection of marriage" prop. And, a court found that it was unconstitutional. So now some are trying to change the constitution, as is their right.

It's all part of the American way. Democracy in action. God Bless America! "

" We allow this and you'll eventually have people wanting to marry their pets. Sounds insane/ridiculous, right? Well, men marrying each other would have been laughed off 30 years ago just as we can now laugh off legalizing beastiality. This country is so far in the immoral toilet and this will drive it deeper. "

" Hawkins 707
My wife is in no way comporable to my pet! Maybe your wife is, but not mine! Or maybve you are part of the 63% of prop 8 supporters who are divorced! Yeah divorced heterosexuals are definately the ones who should be worried about "protecting marriage"
I have to say, I would be worried if I were you too, since anyone would rater marry a dog than you! "