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Eco-village would help Angwin
Sunday, December 28, 2008
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Save Rural Angwin continues to discredit itself with empty arguments and circular reasoning. A recent letter from Allen Spence rehashes the same “sky is falling” rhetoric we have seen before (“Eco-village still too big, hard to swallow,” Dec. 2).

1. People who dismiss community transit as an unnecessary alternative to auto-centricity, as Mr. Spence does, exist in a 20th-century fantasy world where greenhouse gases and climate change won’t apply to Napa.
The reality is that PUC’s eco-village provides a wonderful 18,000-square foot organic grocery (similar to a small Whole Foods or a Sunshine Market) such that residents on the hill will not need to ride a bus or drive when they go shopping!

The transit component will become important to hundreds of students, faculty, administrators and Angwin residents that do care about reducing greenhouse gases for trips to visit friends, see a movie, have dinner, get to places of employment (PUC students work in many Upvalley restaurants) and even connections to the airport and the Vine system.
The new homeowners and the college itself will have covenants on property guaranteeing transit service funding, whether used or not.

That is undoubtedly a more reliable source of transit funding than we’ve seen coming out of Sacramento recently. Rural is the misnomer here. Counting PUC, there are more than 5,000 people in and around Angwin that could benefit us all by reducing their carbon footprints through reliable, efficient, affordable and safe transit.
2. Safe streets and reasonable speeds (called traffic calming) seems to be another concept that escapes Mr. Spence. It has been proven in other communities that drivers wanting to speed to their destinations (usually because their commutes to work are so lengthy) seek alternate routes that do not slow them down to safer speeds. The flow of traffic through Angwin is not heavy by any measure, but it is definitely unsafe for kids trying to walk or bike next to Howell Mountain Road. Mr. Spence should know that main streets throughout America never allow traffic to pass through at high speeds as they currently do in Angwin. That is why there is no “Main Street” in Angwin today.

3. Since the prospect of a small 105-unit retirement center is “appealing,” where is the logic in assuming that it would fail?

Does Mr. Spence get to go through life with guarantees that everything will work as he wishes? Perhaps he also thinks our economy is working just fine, as he also wants to believe that PUC’s meager endowment is just fine.

The reality is that a retirement center could greatly benefit St. Helena Hospital as well as many existing Angwin residents who would like to retire and live in this community. Lots of retirement centers succeed, Mr. Spence, but we wouldn’t have any if we didn’t try.

4. Finally, perhaps the worst falsehood promoted in Mr. Spence’s letter is the assertion that no affordable housing would be made available to PUC. Shame on you, Mr. Spence. Read the proposal. The eco-village has always committed a minimum of 15 percent of its housing (now 42 units out of 275 total) to low, very low, and moderate-income households (the very definition of filling a need for PUC faculty and staff housing).

The eco-village’s Local Preference Housing Program also offers additional units that could assist buyers with reduced operating costs, thus making them more available to hospital employees who currently commute long distances to work.

When open-minded citizens learn the facts about this most sustainable community being proposed by PUC, they grow tired of the rhetoric.

(Philpott, Waters and Lopez live in Angwin.)
26 comment(s)

skeptic wrote on Dec 28, 2008 2:47 PM:

" i have yet to hear from a teacher at p.u.c. who would ever contemplate living in an eco-village. they all require abandonment of private food supplies and that is is deemed too radical by all i have asked.
all eco-villages also disallow private refredgeration or air conditioning as "unsustainable".
i haven't heard of a single angwin resident willing to invest in such a scheme yet, including any of the pro-big growthers who think 40% is moderate and 20% too little growth.
nobody knows when homes will bottom out but estimates are from 3 years to at least 5, with further drops in price of 20-30% as forclosures increase next year due to arms adjusting and millions being thrown out of work.
plenty of homes on the market will become more affordable , one of the few positive sides to deflation. "

kkjp wrote on Dec 28, 2008 6:49 PM:

" Skeptic - Where in the world did you come up with such crazy claims? Not from the county website where the detailed project application is posted, and not from the project website, both of which sites you might want to read to become better informed. There's no required "abandonment of private food supplies", no disallowing of "private refrigeration or air conditioning" (on the contrary, energy efficient heating & air conditioning is specified as planned for residences) or other bizarre requirements. Maybe skeptic's posting is meant as a joke? Or maybe skeptic believes all eco-villages worldwide operate the same. They don't. "

HMcritic wrote on Dec 28, 2008 8:16 PM:

" KKJP: Apparently you agree with Skeptic – No PUC employee is willing to buy into this con?

You ask where Skeptic got his “crazy claims”. I am just guessing, but he or she could have gotten them from the crazy plan’s website which, in its latest iteration states “The Community Supported Agricultural farm will also be professionally managed and participation will be mandatory for all Ecovillage residents and the college, Better look quick as their story changes all the time, but it sure sounds like abandonment of priate food supplies to me.

This website is worth a look, if you have not done so already. It is a model of spin which in its latest version explains that the Eco-village nightmare came from the febrile mind of a “top California official” which is the first time we have heard this one. It has gone from an endowment scheme to a government planning exercise. Now we understand everything. "

ProAngwinConTriad wrote on Dec 28, 2008 8:36 PM:

" There is no study that shows that an appreciable amount of traffic on Deer Park Rd. would be alleviated by a bus system and usage is usually considered to be in the 5% range. Studies uniformly show that the vast majority of rural transit usage is by elderly and poverty sectors. The prices mooted by Triad/PUC seem to indicate this is not their market. Triad/PUC has never considered this reality instead simply showing pictures of 25 mph ecomobiles claiming that they are the answer.

Covenants on property proscribe usage of the property. They do not raise money for bogus transportation schemes and their use for this seems to have been created by the imagination of these authors. Not even the puff-masters of Triad/PUC have floated this. We have yet to see any wording of any of the magic covenants for any part of this project, just a wall-eyed reference to them as an answer to any impediment that stands in the way of Triad’s subdivision. Anyone suggesting this is a reliable source of funding a poorly conceived transportation system is simply ill informed.

The downsized market can hardly be considered a traffic remedy. We already have a 30,000 sq. ft. organic market similar to Sunshine foods (better in some respects) and downsizing it is not going to increase usage. "

ProAngwinConTriad wrote on Dec 28, 2008 8:37 PM:

" “Calming” traffic is a euphemism for screwing it up. There will be just as many homes on the other side of the Mountain (actually many more if current plans survive the housing bust) and there will be just as much through traffic which will simply divert to White Cottage Rd., a road which is hardly designed for this. Triad/PUC KNOW THIS and blithely feign ignorance. It’s not their problem, after all.

Retirement centers do not succeed because they are appealing, they succeed because they have a core market area and are the best use of the property. Triad/PUC has not, to this point, considered them because, from their cement-world point of view the answers to both are no. They have floated the notion now to manipulate the oldsters, many of whom are not as dumb as PUC/Triad thinks. But there are not enough of them to provide what most operators would consider them number necessary for this. Triad/PUC knows this. Big-time retirement home operators are on PUC’s Board. If the market were there the center would already exist, rather than exist in St. Helena.

Finally, the “worst lie” lather with which the writers crescendoed doesn’t even accurately quote Spence’s letter. What he said was: “a Triad spokesman in public meetings last week admitted that the units would be priced beyond the reach of almost all college employees.” Those that were there heard what was said. The authors apparently were not there or can’t recall.

Merry Christmas, Prof. "

Jasper wrote on Dec 28, 2008 8:57 PM:

" People will be either amused or outraged at the gross mis-statements in this letter by three employees of the College.

Consider the declaration that a bus going up and down the hill will replace gas-guzzling automobiles. Years before this project is completed, we will all be driving automobiles which do not pollute the air. Nobody, repeat nobody, is going to wait for the bus to take them to St. Helena. Nobody. The bus is just a gimmick, pretending to be the environmental solution.It is not. We have all seen empty buses and we know that they will just be an expense to the homeowners.

Narrowing Angwin’s Main Street will not reduce the traffic flow. What narrowing the road will do is irritate drivers to the point that they will step on the gas immediately beyond the campus and there will be numerous accidents to Angwin residents coming out of the adjacent subdivisions.

Finally, the writers say that Mr. Spence has promoted a “falsehood” stating that no affordable housing would be made available to PUC. The attorney for the College has admitted in unmistakable terms that very few college employees make enough money to purchase housing in the Triad project.

And the idea of just 15% affordable houses in a project of 275 units is ridiculous. The Association of Bay Area Governments recommends 50%. Marin County’s new General Plan calls for 50%.

One of the most unfortunate aspects of the Triad project is the betrayal of its own people by the PUC administration on this affordable housing issue. Taking care of his own employees should be Dr. Osborn's very first concern. Too bad. "

skeptic wrote on Dec 28, 2008 9:24 PM:

" i got my information by searching eco-village on different engines, there are many. no 2 are the same but all share a vision of sustainability that specificically calls for the above food arrangement to cut our energy use . i already provided the u.n. documents on the subject , along with sample rules from eco-villages that are well known, in previous posts. search eco-village in the opinion section.
i'd be happy to hear of any eco-village that doesn't have communal dining but wasn't able to find any after many hours of searching. i read in a book by a man who tried 400 eco-villages around the world, that only 2 were ones that he would contemplate staying in long term , due to there being a need of consensus on so many things, from what foods to buy to religious practices.
please give actual examples of eco-villages that allow pet cats if you know of any examples. many are banning any new pet dogs too, including a large one in australia , because they are considered not sustainable.
i can't help it if there is no detailed description of the kind of restrictions on activity going on at all the eco-villages on the triad web site. other than forcing people to live a few blocks from a garage and "free" electric vehicles and solar projects already required by the present state rules, i find hardly any details of actual eco-village type measures that have to do with the united nations goals that gave the impetus for them in the first place.
one premise of the rio conference was that further growth of population and housing at current rates is unsustainable . that means converting to more green practices, not building more homes and increasing population. "

kkjp wrote on Dec 28, 2008 9:38 PM:

" HMcritic - "Participation will be mandatory..." with regard to the farm, means homeowners will support the farm through a portion of their homeowners association dues, and will receive regular produce deliveries. Think of it as a farm co-op, a growing movement throughout the nation. PUC will support the farm through purchase of produce for the college's food service.

"Participation will be mandatory..." does not mean that there will be Produce Police forcing people to eat only what the farm produces. It means residents have to help financially support the farm if they choose to live in the eco-village. To interpret "participation" to mean "abandonment of private food supply" is just plain silly.

Also, HMcritic, "covenants" no doubt relate to CC&R's which often include to HOA dues, which could very well help to fund transportation alternatives. Covenants extend beyond simple usage of property.

It seems the point the letter writers are making regarding affordability of housing is that 42 homes -- more than the county requires -- WILL, in fact, be low income homes that college employees can afford. "

kkjp wrote on Dec 28, 2008 10:00 PM:

" skeptic - While many eco-villages have communal dining, you will find in reading through the buildings and facilities included in this eco-village narrative that there is no such facility - no community room or communal dining room or any facility planned that could even remotely accommodate a community of people sharing meals together. Rather than making assumptions based on searching the internet, why not just ask if communal dining is planned (on the eco-village website contact page) or ask the county if such a facility is included in the application? "

ProAngwinConTriad wrote on Dec 29, 2008 3:32 AM:

" kkjp: HOA dues, as you know, are set periodically by am elected board of homeowners which also sets a budget that is always low-balled to minimize expenses. Do you think this is what the above writers were talking about? Does this sound like they will be “guaranteeing transit service funding, whether used or not.” and “a more reliable source of transit funding than we’ve seen coming out of Sacramento recently.”? It would seem they have been seriously misled. don’t you think?

Many do not care whether there are produce police or not. What concerns us is our Grandchildren’s Angwin. The Eco-village is the worst, least inviting housing product I have ever seen from top to bottom. It has all the charm of a whiny ex-wife. It is much more likely that someone would commute 25 miles away from it rather than 25 miles to it. Triad is a professional and must know this. Developers always have a plan B and sometimes A is their approval plan and the real plan is B which comes along when, to their feigned surprise, plan As we are seeing in numerous subdivisions these days, B is often plan Chapter 11 which leaves the community a wreck and would really do so in this instance. Remember, the developer is not Triad, it is a LLC shell.

With it so obvious that plan A is a planned loser, the question is what it Triad/PUC really up to? What is the real plan B and why won’t they talk about it? They have been spinning this with story after story for 2 years. What will we have when the stories stop? "

PUC Prof wrote on Dec 29, 2008 5:25 PM:

" Belated merry Christmas and happy New Year to all.

If refrigerators, air conditioners, dogs and cats are all banned by the planners of the Angwin Eco-village, which I doubt will happen, I would withdraw my support. Why not ask the planner those specific questions at the next public hearing?

I have my doubts about the feasibility of public transportation, but maybe a van running regularly up and down the hill would have enough passengers to make ends meet. Who knows? I could name some students and a few members in the community who lack a car and would love to have such a service. I wish we didn't have to wait until an eco-village is built to find out, but it's a financial risk that nobody seems interested in investing in--at the moment.

As for affordable homes, maybe homes will be very affordable by the time the market bottoms out. Who knows? And if PUC's endowment increases, so will employee salaries, which will make homes more affordable. I would be content with a two-bedroom condominium. I don't need a mansion or a lawn to mow to be happy, not even in heaven. "

Jasper wrote on Dec 30, 2008 9:15 AM:

" One of the gross fallacies of the so-called eco-village is the idea that the homeowners would accept dues of 1% (which would be on top of the Napa County real estate tax of slightly more than 1%) to pay for all the goodies which Triad says they will crank into this subdivision.

The bus is the most obvious fallacy. After about two months of the bus running up and down the hill “on a frequent schedule” but almost empty, the homeowners are going to say, “Hold on here, Joe. This is not going to come out of my pocket.”

The socialistic ideal of community gardens would be OK, but a lot of homeowners are going to rebel rather quickly to the “mandated” purchase of stuff they may not want or is not the quality of what they can get in the store. After the first season of this mandated cost, the homeowners are going to say, “Hold on here, Joe. I’m not going to be mandated.”

The idea of reducing homeowners dues by thousands of dollars for those who find a job in Angwin or Deer Park is ridiculous. Those thousands of dollars would mean the remaining members would be bearing the cost of Pete’s subsidy in the homeowners association budget. In the first meeting, when Joe discovers that Neightbor Pete is paying $7,200 less than him each year, he is going to go ballistic.

Is there anything believable in this Disneyland dream?

Oh, I forgot, they would narrow Main Street to reduce traffic through Angwin. "

kkjp wrote on Dec 30, 2008 1:39 PM:

" Jasper -- As has been explained in meetings, the purpose of narrowing Howell Mtn. Rd. through Angwin is to reduce traffic SPEED, not traffic VOLUME. If you have ever driven through small rural towns most anywhere, take the coast highway for example, traffic slows as it passes through towns. Why? Because of a combination of traffic slowing methods including reduced speed limit signs, very visibly utilized pedestrian crosswalks, narrowing of the roadway, cars parked on both sides of the road, etc. There are a host of cues that alert drivers that they need to slow down ahead for the safety of pedestrians and drivers alike because they're entering a town.

Vehicles just don't blow through those little towns at a high rate of speed like they do through Angwin. Wouldn't you agree that slowing traffic a bit as it passes through Angwin would be a benefit for residents? "

Jasper wrote on Dec 30, 2008 3:45 PM:

" kkp -

I do indeed agree that slowing traffic through Angwin would benefit residents. And you cite a number of traffic control measures that I would try before I would consider reducing the width of the roadway. The idea of reduced traffic volume was the assertion of a Triad representative that slowing traffic on past the campus would divert volume to White Cottage Road. That route, in my judgment is so poor an alternative that it merits no serious consideration. If the college were really concerned about the safety of its students, it would be insisting on some of the tried and true speed regulation measures you suggest. Not even the death of four students has produced an outcry by College administrators against speeding. These people are callous beyond belief.

My personal assumptionf is that the idea of narrowing Howell Mountain Road was just a device for presenting a pretty picture of a tree-lined street. Sorry to be cynical, but that's what developers do. "

ProAngwinConTriad wrote on Dec 30, 2008 5:01 PM:

" Your analogy is inaccurate. We are discussing queing between two alternatives where volume is a function of speed, not slowing traffic. You cannot seriously assert that traffic will not increase on White Cottage in direct proportion to Triad’s impediments or “calming” in Angwin. What the spinmeisters of Triad and PUC say in their sales meetings and web presentations and what the reality is on the ground are often two very different things. "

Jasper wrote on Dec 30, 2008 10:30 PM:

" I'm back. The temptation to straighten out Craig Philpott is to great to resist.

The retirement center was floated as an idea which might appeal to some Angwin people. The thought that some Angwin oldsters would welcome a way to live on in Angwin seems valid. But Craig's assertion that "many" would is really unrealistic.

First, oldsters hold onto their house for as long as possible, and then usually move closer to a child who will look after them. So tenants in a retirement center are there for only a short time until they pass on to the great Retirement Center in the Sky. So operators must market constantly for new tenants.

Second, a retirement center in Angwin would have to compete with established institutions in St. Helena and Yountville. Could it compete against those which bought their land and built their centers when costs were much cheaper? Not likely.

I suggest that Craig check with the Vice President of Finance who has repeatedly said that the College has solicited agreements with several veteran retirement center operators and all have concluded that they couldn't make it.

So forget the retirement center spin, folks, it ain't gonna fly. As for Craig's suggestion that we won't know unless we try it, my response would be, This is a noble experiment that Triad will probably drop quietly when it fails to find an operator. Just another ploy. Another desperate effort to pick up a few uninformed supporters. "

ProAngwinConTriad wrote on Dec 31, 2008 10:27 AM:

" My New Year’s resolution is to completely eschew the expenditure of any cerebral effort of even the smallest measure pondering the absurdity of:

1. fishing
2. tattoos
3. existence
4. the Eco-village.

Ein glückliches, Prof. "

skeptic wrote on Jan 1, 2009 10:14 AM:

" kkjp and prof. although it goes against agenda 21 and "sustainability", i finally found an eco-village in l.a. that allows private meals. it's because they are living in a couple of apartment buildings from the 1920's which don't have any dining commons. still, they have weekly potlucks in the lobby and would probably have a communal dining area if they could design a new village as proposed for angwin.
the first eco-village was probably findhorn and later the gaia trust was developed and the u.n. got involved so there is no single source on what an eco-village is.it is pretty clear that private refidgeration is considered unsustainable in the long run if one believes in the global warming theory.
i quoted the agenda 21 sections on narrow roads and refrigderation and communal food stocks on a previous post.
it's pretty clear that the eco-village has to have like-minded people who build the community around social justice , the environment , or spirituality.
i'm curious which of the 3 would be the main emphasis in angwin .
happy new year to all. "

PUC Prof wrote on Jan 1, 2009 12:00 PM:

" Skeptic, I'm sorry I haven't read as much as you have about ecovillages, but I cannot comprehend why any ecovillage would ban the use of refrigerators. Are refrigerators any less sustainable than light bulbs, blow dryers, clothes dryers, televisions, microwave ovens, computers or any other electrical applicances? Refrigeration slows down the rate of bacterial and fungal decay, which means food can be stored for much longer periods of time. Refrigerators are arguably more sustainable than other electrical appliances because they reduce: (1) the amount of food spoiled; (2) the amount of energy used while shopping for food more frequently; (3) the amount of energy used cooking food more frequently; and (4) the incidence of food poisoning and stomach cancer, plus the energy used while seeking medical treatment. Furthermore, the use of all home electrical applicances is sustainable if the electricity is generated from a sustainable source such as solar or wind energy, which do not contribute to global warming. "

Boots wrote on Jan 1, 2009 1:34 PM:

" Hey, can we make that guardrail at the hairpin turn out of something eco friendly? It was crashed into splinters last night.

Is it possible that TRIAD will be providing eco pulp or some such material to replace this often destroyed piece of traffic calming hardware?

It would be handy for TRIAD to provide an eco maniac to man this dangerous corner in keeping with their claim of traffic calming!

How much worse do things have to be...fire, drught and death, before the PUC/TRIAD people start to give a damn about Angwin and Napa County? "

skeptic wrote on Jan 1, 2009 1:35 PM:

" prof. good questions. my sources for the following are gen( global ecovillage network )and their pdf. file called csa, or community sustainability assessment.
take the test and score your sustainability. these same precepts can be found in united nations agenda 21, the most quoted standard for eco-villages.
you get 5 points for answering "most household needs ( clothes washing, food preparation etc. ), are accomplished using natural, non-electric means,
you get negative 1 point for using traditional methods.
refrigeration is allowed but it is not sustainable to have individual ones.
think scrubbing clothes the old fashioned way and living more like the amish without much electricity except from solar panels.
here's another question from csa,"appliances and electronic equipment are shared by community members, "often +2, never, negative one.
question h,"refrigeration is provided by ,seasonal systems or cold boxes/cellars+3, electricity from a non-renewable source, minus 2.
don't forget that plastics are non-renewable, thus all the pipes should be copper, even in the low-cost houses.
it's not an eco-village if it doesn't score high on the sustainability test .
don't forget 2 extra points for practicing homeopathy.
crazy claims? nope. just word for word quotes from the highest authorities on the subject available. "

PUC Prof wrote on Jan 2, 2009 9:09 AM:

" Boots, do you really expect PUC/Triad to be responsible for safety on a hairpin curve located 3 miles from PUC along a county-maintained road? I'm a PUC employee and I care about Angwin and the county, but please don't blame me if somebody drives drunk or too fast. "

napablogger wrote on Jan 2, 2009 10:35 AM:

" We are talking about another below 300 units in a place with no traffic to speak of and thousands and thousands of acres of open space. This is a ludicrous conversation. People will not even be able to notice the difference in traffic it will be such a small amount.

Get back in touch with reality.

Why don't we tell the truth, SRA doesn't want any more growth, but the small amount of growth that is going to take place will have very little impact on water or traffic, how could it? If you went to the beach and removed a shovel full of sand, would it ruin the beach?

These are the proportions we are talking about here.

The biggest impact will be the new grocery store and other stores, people won't have to make as many trips down the hill and it will make Angwin nicer. "

jt wrote on Jan 2, 2009 4:49 PM:

" if paper were chasing it like a dog chasing its tail it'd be one thing but there is less paper chasing these buildings than there is rain in the sahara desert. NAI BT. Yep that's the one. "

citizen wrote on Jan 6, 2009 10:22 PM:

" In light of the proposed Eco-village" (which I perceive as a "dark" proposal) I would so miss the College Market. Currently, it is an affordable cost health food store. One can shop there for everything and anything organic, fresh, in bulk, or otherwise, and for a lessor cost than even Trader Joe's. Certainly, if one is not into organic, clean, & natural then all of the other nasty foods are available as well, but in much lessor quantity than most markets, and for a lessor cost. PUC, don't sell out the best market in the Napa Valley. What a treasure it is.

So, with that said, and considering that the majority of Agwinites already grow their own food gardens, what is the relevence, purpose, or sales pitch/marketing ploy about, regarding this community garden idea?? PLEASE, people who want good food and want to grow it do/will; in pots on their decks or in their yards, whatever their space. But get this, today's worker bees DO NOT have the time and WILL NOT take the time to work a community garden; unless they are the poor and desperate (unfortunate but true). And we all know that any new home that sells in Angwin will not include the poor and desperate buyer. "Good-bye" community garden idea!

The community garden idea is as stupid as the shuttle bus idea and the idea that PUC workers will ever afford a home in Angin Ridiculous! "

bhenery wrote on Jan 9, 2009 1:48 PM:

" Blogger,

Check with College Market staff. Each time they do something 'nicer', PUC admin shuts them down.

The goal here is for the Market to fail. "

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