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midvalley wrote on Jul 1, 2009 1:17 PM:
kbf wrote on Jul 1, 2009 1:17 PM:
Ruff Limblog wrote on Jul 1, 2009 1:24 PM:
He sure fits in as a Republican.
He declares a fiscal emergency that he help precipitate.
~Ruff "
midvalley wrote on Jul 1, 2009 1:35 PM:
magnum wrote on Jul 1, 2009 2:00 PM:
Arnold will blame others but it always start at the top and he needs to quit talking and starting working on fixing this mess! "
kbf wrote on Jul 1, 2009 2:07 PM:
TAXPAYER wrote on Jul 1, 2009 2:19 PM:
servant wrote on Jul 1, 2009 2:25 PM:
reason-ator wrote on Jul 1, 2009 3:34 PM:
napasnapper wrote on Jul 1, 2009 3:34 PM:
Napa_Citizen wrote on Jul 1, 2009 4:00 PM:
savenapa wrote on Jul 1, 2009 6:28 PM:
ctworker wrote on Jul 1, 2009 6:42 PM:
Just Concerned wrote on Jul 1, 2009 7:13 PM:
athought wrote on Jul 1, 2009 7:42 PM:
Paddy wrote on Jul 1, 2009 7:52 PM:
reader wrote on Jul 1, 2009 7:53 PM:
ctworker wrote on Jul 1, 2009 8:22 PM:
Mr. Feasor wrote on Jul 1, 2009 8:23 PM:
I think you may have misread the article. It says "[t]he shortfall is expected to grow by $7 billion because the LEGISLATURE did not enact several stopgap measures on Tuesday" (emphasis added).
The governor and his 'cronies' are part of the executive branch, not the legislative branch... "
109823 wrote on Jul 1, 2009 8:33 PM:
Madison Jay Hamilton wrote on Jul 1, 2009 8:56 PM:
The Bush Administration punished California for voting for Gore (2000) and Kerry (2004). Not even the (R) printed after his name could convince Bush to help California when it mattered. "
reason-ator wrote on Jul 1, 2009 9:07 PM:
Just Concerned wrote on Jul 1, 2009 10:12 PM:
Raven wrote on Jul 1, 2009 10:14 PM:
I notice the GOP in the legislature have still not submitted a plan they would accept....
feasor, yes the gov, since he vetoed the bill that was passed and his cronies, the GOP minority in legistaure.... "
duck wrote on Jul 1, 2009 10:25 PM:
John Richards wrote on Jul 1, 2009 11:17 PM:
5th generation napan wrote on Jul 2, 2009 7:45 AM:
YOU spend money you dont have, then eventually the repo guy comes, and the legislature acts supprised?
Give me a break.
Declare total bankrupsy, fire all the legislatures, and all the state workers and start over with a clean set of books. We'll call it "Wiser California", list ourselves as a new reformed, smarter state and the first law is we can only spend money that we took in the Previous year. Then we can have a real budget.
Painful, yes but necessary. "
Raven wrote on Jul 2, 2009 10:32 AM:
5th generation napan wrote on Jul 2, 2009 2:50 PM:
http://www.sacbee.com/1098/story/1666241.html
How about limiting some of the gross fat in the state employee budget.
Why does the State of California have over 31 Cheif Dentist's on staff totalling over 12 million dollars?
And this is outside the UC System.
UC System 52 people making over 58 million dollars, and 6 professors making over 11 million dallars, and our educational system is junk right now!
http://www.sacbee.com/1098/story/1669273.html
Why is the state hitting the essential service when there is a whole lot of disgusting FAT in the budget. The wool is being pulled over our eyes with smoke and mirrors and we are being miss directed into looking at the wrong places.
I, me, myself group protecting their buddies, and its not right.
Yes RAVEN its time for the people to have a revelution in this state and start over.
But will the state union, representing 141,000 employeed and retired people like this, no I doubt it.
You do the math.
And this is only the public data, just imagine if you took the budget line by line, the amount of graft you'd find. "
Raven wrote on Jul 2, 2009 3:45 PM:
5th generation napan wrote on Jul 4, 2009 10:51 PM:
For me it's from reading articals such as the cal-tax commentary By Larry McCarthy making statements "After a year of careful review, the Sacramento Bee identified categorical school spending which is 30 percent of school spending or $17 billion spent on programs for which there are no measurable results. The Los Angeles Times has reported that Medi-Cal fraud consumes 10% (or $3 billion) of the revenues for the Medi-Cal program. On January 31, 2006, Los Angeles Daily News reported that fraud in state funded child care programs could reach $1.5 billion. Additional press reports on waste and fraud can be found at Cal-Tax Online .
http://www.caltax.org/Digest/2006/mar06_mccarthy_california_structural_budget_deficit.html
But I'm sure everyone will say this is a subversive group.
Goring said "if you tell a big enough lie, everyone will believe it"
Yes I stick by my statement there is in the california budget, payoff's, waste, ineffective spending, trailers, pork bellies, and plain mis management.
The legislature have been approving budgets, guessing at how much they will bring in that year.
Why is it so hard to operate off the previous years intake. Then you know what your budget can handle.
No that would eliminate giving special interest anything they want. With the current system they can slide anything into the budget and say I think this revenue this year will cover it. Its all a guess. Its called Enron accounting, or Madoff financing. "
Raven wrote on Jul 6, 2009 6:33 AM:
No one has said there isn't waste and fraud, but no estimate says that would come close to filling the 27 billion dollar hole in the budget. "
5th generation napan wrote on Jul 6, 2009 9:39 AM:
But I guess the bigger question is how did we get to this large hole?
Your statement seems to say that waste and fraud is an acceptable system with people handling public money?
So I told you my view, bankrupt and start over, oh yah we legally can do it, so I guess we have to go line by line and cut out the fat!
So whats your answer? Cut out the slick debating methods and propose a solution, you heard mine. "
tomhansen wrote on Jul 6, 2009 12:33 PM:
Raven wrote on Jul 6, 2009 2:24 PM:
One of the first things I would do is remove term limits. We have had more late and deficit budgets since they began that at any other time in the state's history. Prior to term limits, the latest a budget was passed was by mid July. term limits removes any incentive for any legislator of either party to look at long term solutions to the state's issues. Instead, we now have a group of legislators that, for the most part, are looking for the next office to run for and raising money to run for that office.
I would work to reform the initiative process and reduce or even eliminate the budgeting by initiative that have become prevalent in the last several decades, locking in spending and tying the hands of any legislature who wants to try and change that.
As for your solution, other than dealing with your inflated version of waste, and proposing 'solutions' like bankruptcy which the state cannot do, I haven't heard any. "
5th generation napan wrote on Jul 7, 2009 9:45 AM:
I disagree about eliminating term limits.
Main reason, we partially based our govenment on the greeks. Their senate had a two year term limit and every citizen had to be a part of govenment at one time. This is a good concept we missed.
Reason, we have polititions building empires . Some of these legislatures have way too much power. This means we are relying on a person to save us an we eliminate competition, free thinking, and new ideas. We are looking at a politition "plugged into the system" to get things done. Well that is what the system of laws were supposed to do. Laws are like the constitution, a system to guide us. We now rely on longterm "select" group of people that have so much power they can manipulate the system.
Im sure you will complely disagree with me Raven and thats ok. My last note had a typo, "oh yah we legally can do it" was suppose to say "legally can't do it". My message is firm, I dont have a copy of the budget in front of me and I'm sure you don't either, if you do, I bet you would find tons of wasted, misspent money. You dont seem to belive the posts I listed showing waste.
The initiative process has come about because the senate hasn't listen to what the people want. Its still a government "of the people" and not just a few. Even though I know in reallity we are being run by just a few people looking out for themselves.
And that is the upsetting part.
You gave long term ideas Raven but as you asked me, what should be done now? "
Raven wrote on Jul 7, 2009 5:47 PM:
.....everything, private and public has waste and that the amount of waste is far smaller than most people think and eliminating every iota of it would have very little effect on the current budget crisis. Do I endorse waste? No, but I prefer to deal in the facts of the subject rather than wishful thinking.
Raise the revenues, for example, the re was a plan put forward to use a 15 fee on vehicle regs for fund all the state parks and allow anyone with a CA licnes plate to use the parks for free, that was rejected by the GOP under their no new taxes mantra, now we face closing more than 200 of our state parks, resulting in lower revenues to the communities that are near them, hurting the small businesses that the GOP like to tell everyone they support - and cut as appropriate, but don't let the poor, the elderly and the schools bear the overwhelming brunt of the cuts.
I do have a copy of the budget...but what is misspent is a matter of opinion, I am sure we have different priorities
As for what this state based it govt on, it wasn't the Greeks, each city state of Greece had it own form of govt from monarchies to oligarchies to direct democracies.
The common model used here seems to be closer to a hybrid of the roman republic and the English parliamentary system. Terms limit have moved power from legislators who haven't been there long enough to know how the state works to lobbyists who have the knowledge and expertise in increasingly complex areas of our state - they are responsible to no one. "
5th generation napan wrote on Jul 7, 2009 9:30 PM:
Bottom line is special interests groups are running the govenment. California is losing jobs and manufactruring has become a dirty word.
I still believe there is a lot of mis spent money. A well run project can minimize waste. But when waste is an income to some special interest how do you control it then.
You never commented on this artical,
http://www.caltax.org/Digest/2006/mar06_mccarthy_california_structural_budget_deficit.html
The budget seems to reley on Personal and Sales tax. Well both are US. and it amount to about 83% of the state income. Well if there is no jobs how are we going to cover 83% of the budget. A new tax on, appliances, furniture repair, vetinerian services, amusment parks, sporting events, and golf is just a tax on US people. Where's the end.
You give no sources for your view "waste is far smaller than most people think".
Whats missing is a manufacturing base in this state. We have driven it out and we better figure out how to get it back.
Our infastructure is crumbling waiting for disaster, the legislature is playing smoke and mirrors saying the police, fire, schools, parks and health of our seniors is too much of a burden to the budget.
Meanwhile we need to get our basic principals in place, and thats why I say line by line look and eliminate. #2) base a budget on the previous year so they know how much to spend. #3) Outlaw trailer bills. #4) somehow reel in special interest groups.
But to raise revenue this state needs to become the agricultural and manufacturing power house it once was with a uniform fair taxing system and uniform design and waste requirements. "
Raven wrote on Jul 8, 2009 12:04 AM:
The shift to personal and sales tax took place after Prop 13 removed the property tax a a stable source of revenue for the services people are demanding the state provide....and prop 13 removed the local control element from property taxes as well, making the state the major player.
As for caltax.org, it's mantra of no new taxes under any circumstances as well as its history with prop 13 and other moves to tie the hands of the state to do what is needed, makes them a less than reliable source of neutral information IMHO.
But it is a given that structural changes must take place or we will be going this every year - just saying no is not the answer. "
5th generation napan wrote on Jul 8, 2009 9:28 AM:
For the amount of taxes California people pay out and what we get in return is zilch.
We have a 1000 miles of levies needing repair, dams needing repair, roads, water / sewer piping all needing repair and updating, let alone trying to prepare for the next big quake.
Along with this we have a school system that has become trash compared to 30 years ago. We have kids scoring the highest in science and math test ever, and we're facing a major engineering shortage in 3 or 4 years? The biggest plus coming out of your UC system use to be creative problem solving. All we seem to beable to do now is create viruses for computers to mess everyone else up.
There are a lot of good thinking, moralistic people in this state that are being squeezed to the breaking point.
It was not prop 13 that destroyed our school system, it was the lottry. When we put the lottry in place to augment school funding, the fed goverment said, thank you now we can pull our funding to you. The lottry ended up giving the school less finding than we had from the fed's. Which is fine, we should be self supporting but we have been behind the curve ever since.
Your right we need to decide what we need. And maybe we could put effort into bringing businesses and manufacturers BACK into the state to pay for it?
But first we need to clean house and get rid of back door politics.
I don't think you believe there is any questionable practices in the state or washinton, so we'll just agree to disagree. "
Raven wrote on Jul 8, 2009 11:14 AM:
and agian, I have never said there weren't questionable practices in either or waste in either, but unnecessary or questionable is in the eye of the beholder...programs you think may be essential I may not and vice versa.
But anyone who thinks we can simply cut our way out of a nearly 30 billion deficit is in my opinion, naive. That analogy often floated about families and businesses needing to tighten their belts is only half true...they also need to find new sources of revenue. The state needs to look at both. "
5th generation napan wrote on Jul 8, 2009 12:32 PM:
All my reading says we have been taken for a ride, the federal governmanet raiding our state budget, trickling down to the counties and cities by Reagan, Clinton, Bush Sr and Jr. and our budget from the feds have been less, thats just my "opinion" from my selective reading.
If we can't simply "cut" our way out of 30 billion how did we "so complicatedly" ADD 30 billion we can't afford? Unchecked credit we can't afford? and a depression blowing our bubble?
Its complicated I grant you, but the S&L's of the 80's destroyed manufacturing by borrowing low interst money from the feds to leverage hostal takeovers and garage sale out manufacturing for a profit. Congress eliminated the Glass Segal act put in place after the last depression separateding banking and financial investments, and guess what happened. The two got mixed again and Wall street took us for a ride. This country is destroying itself from inside , and middle america better start getting a backbone again and clean house or China and Denmark will forclose on us without firing a shot. Mergers have been allowed and anti trust laws have NOT kicked in? Giving big oil and financial house the power to manipulate.
We are being manipulated and the country's identity has been stolen.
The legislature, Congress, and Lobbiest need to start being held accountable!
My God am I the only one seeing this?
But once again this is just "My opinnion" and I guess your right, I'm just naive.
Lol best of luck Raven, I hope your method works better than my solution.
In the end I do believe we both are thinking alike, How do we solve this. "
Raven wrote on Jul 9, 2009 12:44 PM: