Bob Vogt: BottleRock grew out of an attorney's passion for music

2013-04-22T14:58:00Z 2014-05-01T14:42:34Z Bob Vogt: BottleRock grew out of an attorney's passion for musicPAUL FRANSON Napa Valley Register
April 22, 2013 2:58 pm  • 

Bob Vogt, the co-producer of BottleRock at Napa Expo, is far from most people’s vision of a rock festival producer.

He is a lawyer who made a career of real estate development and created a chain of drive-up coffee kiosks, while dabbling in his dual passions for music and sports.

Through a twist of circumstances, Vogt is now one of the driving forces behind BottleRock, the biggest event to ever happen in Napa Valley.

Vogt, born and raised in La Jolla, graduated from UCLA and got his law degree at the University of Santa Clara. When he settled in Sausalito, he discovered that law wasn’t his passion. Instead, he started developing real estate in Mill Valley. About the same time, he reconnected with a college classmate named Teresa and married her.

He moved to Napa in 1981 at the urging of one of his mentors, viewing the community as a good place to raise kids.

Vogt worked on various projects including development of the Napa Yacht Club, selling his stake before the market turned sour.

In the early ‘90s, seeing Starbucks’ success, he founded the Caffino chain of espresso drive-ins (one operated in Bel Aire Plaza until recently), eventually owning 30.  

That’s when he met Gabe Meyers, a young native of Napa who was then a barista at Napa Valley Coffee Roasting Company. Impressed with him, Vogt made him his right-hand man.

Opening the Uptown

In 1998, after Napa County voters passed the flood control project, Vogt sensed opportunities in downtown Napa. Looking at the rundown Uptown Theatre, he and Meyers dreamed of showing thoughtful films for the community, not the commercial movies of the Cinedome.

On Christmas Day, 1998, they took over the movie house under a one-year lease.

They quickly learned that the auditorium didn’t have heat -— and that running an independent movie theater was challenging. “We had passionate fans,” he admits, “but not many of them.”

Vogt started practicing sports law to support his family and the theater. In the process, he met many sports figures he later worked with on charities and concerts.

When he realized that the Uptown couldn’t handle two partners, Vogt bought Meyers out, unfortunately not happily. They didn’t talk again for seven years, he said.

Meanwhile, he had met George Altamura, the prominent downtown property owner. Altamura needed to invest the proceeds from selling his wine venture to Darioush Khaledi. Vogt arranged a dinner with Altamura, entrepreneur Tim Herman and Francis Ford and Eleanor Coppola.

During the dinner, Vogt suggested that Napa was ripe for a venue for headline music and comedy, and that idea resonated with the group.

Coppola endorsed the idea of restoring the theater, and though he didn’t get involved in the project, his blessing helped convince the others.

They bought the property and announced big plans. “We moved quickly — at first,” said Vogt. “Then George said, ‘Let’s slow down.’”

The canny developer saw the signs of economic trouble after 9/11 and the dot com bust: The flood control project was moving slowly, Copia was in trouble, the Opera House was struggling.

 “He said, ‘The good news is that great things are coming, but not for a while.’” said Vogt.

With great regret, the partners reined in their plans.

Then in 2008, Vogt heard Lucinda Williams and Roseanne Cash at the Opera House, and both sold out the small auditorium. “It was time to go,” he felt.

Work started in earnest, though it took two years before the restored Uptown Theatre opened on May 14, 2010. It was a grand birthday present for Vogt.

They found Sheila Groves-Tracey, a top talent buyer with great connections, to be executive director, and started booking acts that drew people to Napa from all over the Bay Area.

Though a minority partner in the effort via a trust for his son, Vogt said he has been deeply involved in management and choosing artists. Though never a professional musician, he formed a band, Will Power, playing guitar, with his son Will as drummer and Meyers on bass.

An idea grows

Last year, Vogt and Meyers reconciled and formed Will Power Entertainment to produce events that combined entertainment and philanthropy based on his interest in music, sports and good causes.

The partners rented the Uptown for two successful concerts to benefit Bryan Stow, the San Francisco Giants fan who was brutally beaten after a baseball game at Dodgers Stadium in Los Angeles. They also supported the Tug McGraw Foundation and autism research and treatment.

Last summer, the pair decided to do something bigger. “We wanted to take the next leap for Napa after the Uptown,” said Vogt. “Napa never had a big music festival. In fact, there was no pure rock festival in the west. We saw that niche.”

Aiming at a millennial crowd of 26 to 45, Vogt picked bands that played music that resonated nicely with people who grew up in the ‘60s, ‘70s and ‘80s.

“You may not have heard of them all,” he admits, “but you’ll like the music. It’s a chance to catch up quickly.”

They started working in September, and Vogt says they even mentioned their plan to Mayor Jill Techel and Councilman Peter Mott, but apparently it didn’t register with them. “I guess it was so big they didn’t take it seriously,” he said.

After first considering bringing in a large national firm to produce what would become BottleRock, they ultimately decided to do it themselves.

Between them, Meyers, who had been organizing events in the Seattle area for seven years, and Vogt had excellent connections. They brought in experts to handle every aspect of the event.

Vogt calls them “festival pirates.” They move from festival to festival, operating quietly but effectively in the background.

The partners raised a little money, including sponsorships and some of their own, then got to work.

Vogt’s idea was for an upscale rock festival with Napa as a big draw for both artists and attendees. “We wanted it to be a big hugfest for the creative people, like a big party where they could meet each other and interact.”

Since it was in Napa, that meant winemakers and chefs as well as performers. And it also meant sunny weather, as opposed to San Francisco which is famous for its big festivals in the cool, foggy climate.

The festival expands

The original idea was for a two-day festival, but it grew to four plus a pre-opening act on Wednesday. “We had to decide whether to start small or go for the big time,” he says. They gambled on big, though in retrospect, having it start on Thursday might have been a bit ambitious.

Rather than bringing in big money, they’ve bootstrapped the effort, Vogt said, first gaining credibility by signing up big names like Black Keys. “We knew they’d sell tickets, and they also attracted other bands.”

Will Power also paid its contracts quickly, putting its money in the artists. They haven’t paid themselves yet, a concern, Vogt admits, to Teresa.

One issue was finding lodging for the artists, as most wanted to linger a bit in Napa. Will Power accomplished that prior to announcing the festival. About 150 rooms were made available for those who buy Platinum ticket packages.

Logistics is a big issue. In addition to providing parking around the area to bus people to the Expo, BottleRock has arranged “Bottle Buses” from San Francisco, Berkeley, Petaluma, Sacramento and even Silicon Valley corporations.

Vogt said they made an early error. When they first announced the festival, tickets sold so fast that they were afraid they’d run out of spaces for the VIP packages and cut off sales. Sales lost momentum and many people think the festival is sold out, which it isn’t, he said.

They’ve restarted the campaign, however, and he expects Friday and Saturday to be at or near 35,000 capacity, lighter on Sunday, but Thursday is a problem.

He’s lowered the price on Thursday to $99 for two tickets for locals that day, and wants to make a big celebration for Napans. “I want them to embrace this as their festival,” he says. “We want everyone to come!”

The layout of the festival

Though originally considering spreading the concerts around local sites, Vogt and Meyers decided otherwise after Vogt attended South by Southwest in Austin, Texas. “Even with VIP credentials, we had to wait hours to get into shows at small venues,” he observed.

“Why make it complicated?” he asked. Having everything in one place vastly simplifies logistics, though he expects many attendees to head for downtown Napa after the concerts end at 10 p.m.

The 26 acres of Napa Expo, which is state property outside the city’s control, will feature three stages. The Miner Family area has room for about 2,500 fans for more-acoustic music, the main Citibank stage has 12,000 to 15,000 capacity and the Will Power stage has 20,000-25,000.

Vogt is shooting for an ambiance like the Robert Mondavi Winery concerts, and he’ll sell low-backed chairs for comfort.

Local bands will play on a small stage near the entrance.

Audiences shouldn’t hear the other stages except during silent times, and the bands will be staggered to allow fans to move around. The comedy stage will be in Chardonnay Hall.

In the center of the Expo will be the Whole Foods Garden plus other food and wine tents. Cindy Pawlcyn and Sean Knight are organizing the areas when top chefs will offer their specialties for sale around tables and chairs for seating. “What will be different from most festivals will be the fine food and wine,” claims Vogt.

About 40 wineries will have tents where they will pour their wines.

Because of Vogt’s passionate interest in serving the community and other good causes, one big part of the festival is the emphasis on charity.

To start with, $1 of each beverage sale will go to autism research, a cause dear to Vogt because of his son’s diagnosis. The festival will also donate to about 25 other local, national and international causes from the Music Connection that buys instruments for local schools to baseball fields for kids.

He’s also working with the Staglin family and their International Mental Health Research Organization, which includes autism among its targets.

Vogt also bought 200 tickets worth $5,400 to support nonprofit Lucky Penny Productions, which is producing “Funny Girl” at the Opera House starting that weekend. He’s distributing the tickets to nearby residents as an alternative if they don’t want to get a free ticket for Thursday’s concerts.

Vogt considers BottleRock a gift to the community and has trouble understanding opponents, who have criticized the feared noise and parking impacts.

Vogt is clearly having a great time and wishes everyone else would, too. “Why can’t they just enjoy it?” he said.

Copyright 2015 Napa Valley Register. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

(31) Comments

  1. Vinteroo
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    Vinteroo - April 22, 2013 6:06 pm
    I wish Vogt and his crew the best.

    But the comedy of errors the announcements, ticketing and acrimonious exchanges via social media of his crew makes me extremely wary.
  2. Napa
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    Napa - April 22, 2013 7:57 pm
    Next year hopefully Mr. Vogt will personally consult the city and the mayor before having a idea to bring "Woodstock" to Napa. To me personally, it's still going to be a disaster. I like many have their reservations about such a massive undertaking. I hope all runs smooth.
  3. publiusa
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    publiusa - April 22, 2013 10:18 pm
    He got what he wanted from Barry Martin.
  4. NAPAsince1976
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    NAPAsince1976 - April 23, 2013 7:32 am
    Sounds like an interview with a lawyer....heard three times, "it's not my fault"...
    "Gee I mentioned it to the Mayor and council member in September. It's the City's fault they didn't take me seriously and get the City staff to start planning for my event."
    "My show is on State land, so the City and their residents can stick it as far as my addressing any of their problems with it."
    And, last, "Gee, I love this, everyone else should feel as I do.And if you don't, refer to my first two cop outs above."
  5. glenroy
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    glenroy - April 23, 2013 8:20 am
    Who's paying the OT for law enforcement?
  6. odiedog52
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    odiedog52 - April 23, 2013 9:13 am
    http://www.napavalleyregister.com/news/local/police-fire-agencies-prep-for-bottlerock/article_f808cd5c-a627-11e2-a832-001a4bcf887a.html

    "The cost for all the extra police staffing, including regular and overtime pay, is likely to exceed $100,000, with BottleRock picking up the tab, [Police Capt. Steve] Potter said."

    "The Fire Department will accrue 956 hours of overtime, [Fire Division Chief John] Callanan estimated. He said the city’s bill to BottleRock for fire support will total more than $100,000."

    Was that too vague?
  7. Report Abuse
    - April 23, 2013 9:44 am
    Music in Napa 's concern has always been a tough nut to crack. I know, it took 12 years to convince the city to change it's position on Use Permits for Entertainment and to simplify the Amplified Outdoor Sound Permit. Finally in 2012 the city did just that and threw in an entertainment district. I took a beating, lots of controversy and adversity and mostly from my peer musicians. Seriously the Napa Music Industry has been in severe straights with musicians averaging $12 an hour to perform. You can't sustain the economics and the culture of music on that kind of money. So then slowly the music culture faded. I kept my hand on the heartbeat. With Vogt and Meyers it will take some deserved deep breaths. While I praise the effort of what is Bottle Rock, what does it do for musicians who have been in the bottom of the pecking order here in Napa for 28 years? The GPI will go up in downtown but the musicians will still get $12 an hour because downtown business won't share.
  8. Report Abuse
    - April 23, 2013 12:23 pm
    Opportunity is a decisive tool for musicians, for a long time in Napa opportunity has been scarce for musicians working towards a professional career. Many Napa musicians that are successful have either done a geo or are successful outside of the Napa system. Bottlerock represents to the local musicians that perform there, a challenge and thats what aspiring and experienced musicians need. They need to be challenged by an audience. Thats how a musician learns their craft to develop their act. While I praise BR for including local musicians into the event, it seems that it was a last minute decision to do so. That preempted the locals acts from getting on the bill. Getting on the bill for big events is important for the acts development, This is not uncommon in Napa, many local acts over the years have warmed the stage for a national headliner only to never be mentioned on the bill or in the press, It is called "booking a darkhorse".
  9. JoeImboden
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    JoeImboden - April 23, 2013 1:32 pm
    Mr. Vogt- Your comment sums up the issue nicely. “...it was so big, they didn’t take it seriously.”
    So instead of doing it right, opening this thing for public comment and local political discourse and the like. Nah! You'll backdoor the entire thing. Drop it on the City and Citizens of Napa without so much as a chance for any real input from the people most effected by your "gift to the community".
    Perhaps the council had it right? Nah! Dropping 35k drunk 26 to 45 yearold concert goers for a four day event in the middle of a City of 75k... What could go wrong?

    Coachella and Woodstock have something in common that the Napa fairgrounds and the surrounding neighborhoods does not.. Space & lack of neighborhoods within 500' of the event.

    The fact is this- You live miles from the epicenter of your event. Comfortably up valley from the City of Napa proper, the rest of us plebs will deal with the fallout of your "...big hugfest for the creative people."
    Maybe I'll rent my house! AWESOME!
  10. odiedog52
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    odiedog52 - April 23, 2013 4:21 pm
    If someone yells "FIRE" in a movie theater and nobody gets up, whose fault is that? According to the article, they brought it up to the city and they didn't take them seriously. They did their due diligence and brought it to their attention and they didn't take them seriously. They're probably wishing they had now.

    "Dropping 35k drunk people.." is an exaggeration. Sure, some will be drunk. The majority will be sober. And you really want to compare Woodstock, an event with 500,000 people to BottleRock? Your arguments are emotional and mostly irrational.

    And your conclusions of me A) being a " Sock Puppet" (I didn't have to look it up) of the PR team and B) Living nowhere near the event are both 100% off base. Nice try though. Any other assumptions?
  11. Report Abuse
    - April 23, 2013 7:22 pm
    Mr. J.I. while your comment surfaces frustration, it is also carries misinformation, the Woodstock Concert event really was the first of it's kind and the surrounding communities were totally impacted with over 130,000 attendee's. What puzzles me is there is so much adversity that is very public from a small minority of individuals towards BR. The Napa Fourth of July event that I managed the music for was attended by 18,000, but that was considered the "static" attendance, that means people sitting. The "footraffic" every year ranges up into the 30,000 numbers. That was a record, and the variables (problems & issues) were minor. This is the way it is every year. Now festivals of this nature are and have been in other communities for years, Texas site's itself as the state with the most festivals, and they continue to be strong and successful. The Napa music industry has been called the "dark void of music land" for years. What is so wrong with giving it a chance? 12% on the GPI I say.
  12. vocal-de-local
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    vocal-de-local - April 23, 2013 10:56 pm
    Maybe it's because I've been writing music most of my life, or maybe it's because I passed the music baton to my son and he continues the tradition of songwriting which motivates me to support this event. I love the scenery of music.

    I grew up in Sonoma County and there was such a strong music scene over there, Napa seemed backwards and musically lifeless by comparison when I moved here 20 years ago.

    BottleRock is bringing music life to Napa. I don't think it will hurt us. And for those who are economically minded, this event and those that follow could generate a lot of revenue for Napa. Would you rather have the City grow populations of people and houses? BottleRock is a five day event. These people will go home. It's not a forever thing.

    Without music life would be a mistake. ~Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche

  13. vocal-de-local
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    vocal-de-local - April 23, 2013 11:07 pm
    Also, check this link out. It reads " The Napa music scene goes big".

    How cool that Napa is beginning to look like it has a music scene! Love it! http://www.davidkerns.net/?p=490
  14. Babyfriend
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    Babyfriend - April 24, 2013 3:31 am
    I am wondering where to get these local tickets for Thursdays show
  15. Babyfriend
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    Babyfriend - April 24, 2013 3:32 am
    Where do you get the locals tickets for Thursdays show?
  16. pfranson
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    pfranson - April 24, 2013 6:14 am
    Buy the local tickets in the bottlerock office downtown on first street
  17. JoeImboden
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    JoeImboden - April 24, 2013 6:32 pm
    So Odie - The business group that brought up this large event that the City had no interest in hosting, instead goes around the entire process set up to allow tax paying Citizen who live near the event and will be effected by the event, a voice as to whether or not the event should be downscaled or hosted in a more suitable location.

    I have no issue with the music, the food, the wine, or with people making money. My issue is that our local civic process was COMPLETELY bypassed, and now our city is forced to deal with a situation that was essentially dumped on them last minute by someone who stands to earn between 9-30mil in ticket sales.

    People will be intoxicated, there will be an increase in Police/EMS/Fire call volume. And noise pollution will be an issue. There will be disruptions causes by the event, it's really only a matter of how many.

    Put your name out there Odie Dog, and the neighborhood you live in. I've made myself as transparent as possible, feel free to do the same.
  18. JoeImboden
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    JoeImboden - April 24, 2013 6:57 pm
    Oracle - Woodstock was out in a field. This is basically 500' from the middle of a residential area. It's going to last four, ten hour days. Blasting 115+dB music for that period of time. All hotels are sold out. Traffic/Parking and Emergency services will be affected. The volume (potentially intoxicated) tourists traveling to and from the camp/lodging/food and concert will create the bulk of the issues.

    Furthermore BRNV was put out there "as a concept for an event" to the NVCC about a year ago, Willpower LLC got negative feedback from the Council and dropped off the local political radar, until basically January when they said "Surprise, big event coming your way!"

    The NV Marathon by comparison draws about 10k people, 3k racers 7k viewers/friends/family/staff and sells out the entire hotel allotment for the area, and only lasts one day for a few hours. There are impacts, but the fact is they go through the proper channels to hold their event.

    Fact: Bottle Rock was backdoored.
  19. taligee
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    taligee - April 24, 2013 10:34 pm
    My, such a todo about beautiful music! Anyway, this is kind of a personal for Bob Vogt, because I haven't been able to find a way to send him a message any other way. I am so proud of what you have accomplished--don't listen to the nay-sayers. Every major discovery, event, newsworthy achievement has its doubters. Let's all calm down & wait & see how it all turns out--no one can see what the future holds. It sounds like it's gonna be one of the biggest smashes Napa has ever seen! What a blast! And why hasn't anyone said what a genious of a name for Napa County--Bottle Rock. So, Bob--hang in there & enjoy every minute--you deserve it! From Tali Galassi--your old friend from sports agent days
  20. napa333
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    napa333 - April 24, 2013 10:35 pm
    Joelmboden, this person has been challenged in the past and instead just attacks with more nasty and negative rhetoric. He has done this on numerous topics and numerous occassions. He has even claimed to be a vet. I was around and involved with the military from 1966 until I retired in 2004 and I don't know of a single military organization or unit that could succeed or be successful in their mission with a person as negative and divisive as this person is in their ranks.
  21. odiedog52
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    odiedog52 - April 25, 2013 4:48 pm
    "People will be intoxicated, there will be an increase in Police/EMS/Fire call volume. And noise pollution will be an issue. There will be disruptions causes by the event, it's really only a matter of how many."

    Chefs' Market will have have intoxicated people and an increase in Police/EMS/Fire call volume. It will be louder. And there will be disruptions.

    So we shouldn't have any events anymore?
  22. odiedog52
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    odiedog52 - April 25, 2013 4:51 pm
    Where am I being nasty?

    And now you're publicly questioning my military service? That's big of you that you were involved with the military, but if you think I'm lying I can be found in the photo for the NVR article "Iraq War Veterans honor the living and the dead" (http://napavalleyregister.com/news/local/iraq-war-veterans-honor-the-living-and-the-dead/article_9be8950a-9111-11e2-b495-0019bb2963f4.html), and my unit, with me in a leadership position, were successful on multiple deployments for different missions. Nice assumption though.
  23. Napa81
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    Napa81 - April 25, 2013 5:13 pm
    The sense of entitlement of many Napans is pathetic. "Where's my local's discount?" "What are you going to do for me?" "You never asked us about having this festival here!".

    For those of us that were here when the Wine Train initially tried to come in, none of this is surprising.

    Fear and Loathing, Napa Style...ugh.
  24. napa333
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    napa333 - April 25, 2013 6:24 pm
    Maybe the claim of being in a leadership (officer?) role explains the arrogance. Anybody can slip into a photo-op. Lots of people out there falsely claiming to be Navy Seals, war heroes etc. Pretty easy these days to order medals and whatever off the internet. Anybody that is as negative and divisive as you have come across in your comments is not an asset to any military organization or unit and can be a detriment to it's operational success. As long as you hide behind your curtain of anonymity you can claim to be whatever you want, I'm just not buying it.
  25. JoeImboden
    Report Abuse
    JoeImboden - April 25, 2013 7:12 pm
    @odiedog52- Nice strawman... lets get to the chase and take this to it's logical conclusion.

    "I hear poker night will have have intoxicated people and an increase in Police/EMS/Fire call volume. It will be louder. And there will be disruptions."

    So we shouldn't have any events anymore? Ignorant reply.

    We're talking between 25-40k attendees. Further, I've done a tremendous amount of homework on the subject- I've spent hours speaking with various parties directly involved in this event and have arrived at the same conclusion I began with... This event was back-doored, which has been and continues to be my complaint. Involve local govt.

    There has been crap planning done due to the event co-coordinators not being forthright with their plans to the City until the last minute. NVBR hasn't even secured it's Special Event Permit yet. City Staff has already spent thousands of NON-BILLABLE man-hours in all Depts trying to plan for this event... and we're less than 4 weeks away.
  26. JoeImboden
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    JoeImboden - April 25, 2013 7:29 pm
    @odiedog52 - Today 4/24/13 - I spoke with a higher up in the police dept. I was told that the the event staffing costs have not even been tabulated yet. And that Staff time is not even reimbursable. So the hundreds if not thousands of man-hours of NON-BILLABLE Staff time spent by admin to plan for this previously unplanned event (that was dropped on them last minute by the geniuses at NVBR). Better yet, the event hosting 25-40k guests only became a permit-worthy event when street closures were requested by those same geniuses at NVBR. PD is looking at up to 40 additional officers in the immediate area, FD is looking at 7 personnel in venue, not counting CHP and the SO. Each of those agencies have Staff (Admin level positions) working on these plans with NON-BILLABLE hours.

    If you have ANY emergencies, make sure to contact 911. Non emergency complaints contact the NPD non Emergency line @ 257-9223. Statistics are being compiled, so call if you have ANY issues.
  27. rosalee3
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    rosalee3 - April 26, 2013 6:59 am
    Now the 2 tickets for $99 are $139.....what gives?
  28. odiedog52
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    odiedog52 - April 26, 2013 9:29 am
    Another assumption gone wrong. I was enlisted. But I guess you're right, all leaders are arrogant. All officers are probably arrogant too.

    So I slipped into a photo op with a close, tight knit group of veterans .. who weren't randomly gathering there, but are part of an actual OIF/OEF Veterans support group where everybody knows everybody and their story? I suppose it's possible, but not true.

    Not sure what my military service has to do with any of this, nice try though.
  29. JoeImboden
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    JoeImboden - April 26, 2013 9:54 am
    @Napa81 - I agree no one should expect a handout.

    The reality is that NVBR is the driving force behind discounted tickets for locals. Why? To help quell and offset the various PR issues they've run into during this hastily organized event, and smooth the way for future events. As it stands, the way this event was implemented won't happen again.

    During one of the two citizen meetings NVBR handed out a large amount of free tickets to some of the attendees that lived close to the venue, surely a "We care." after the fact sentiment.

    As to - "You never asked us about having this festival here!" That's just flat BS. The reason people are upset is because the local political and bureaucratic process that everyone else has to go through to get anything done in this City was bypassed out of expediency and greed.

    Big events go through the City Council, public comment periods, & adequate timelines are allotted to allow for properly planned and permitted event.
  30. napa333
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    napa333 - April 26, 2013 11:38 am
    Odie, you need to go back and re-read your comments on a variety of subjects over the last few months and see if you can figure out how you come across as negative and divisive, at least to me anyway. Photo-op: didn't say you did, didn't say you didn't, officer: didn't say you were didn't say you weren't, military service: didn't say you served, didn't say you didn't serve, your the one who brought up your military service in a previous comment. I just wondered how any military unit could survive and be successful in any endeavors with someone as negative and divisive in it's ranks. Maybe you didn't come across this way while in uniform. If you served, I thank you for your service.
  31. odiedog52
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    odiedog52 - April 26, 2013 12:43 pm
    "Photo-op: didn't say you did, didn't say you didn't" - You didn't directly say it, but it's clear that you implied it, along with feeling the need to mention people who claim to be in the military/military accolades that they didn't earn while publicly questioning mine.

    "didn't say you served, didn't say you didn't serve, your the one who brought up your military service in a previous comment." - Yes, I brought it up in another comment in another article about another topic. As I said, not sure what my military service has to do with BottleRock. Then again, I recall you bringing my stance about BottleRock into the comment section of an article about Foie Gras, so it isn't surprising to me that you pick and choose bits and pieces of unrelated content and rather poorly try and construe it into something that fits your stance. When I asked what BottleRock had to do with Foie Gras, you (not surprisingly) suggested I go back and "re-read your comments".
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