BottleRock owes security company $217,000

Festival debt tops $1.78 million
2013-06-25T18:15:00Z 2014-05-01T14:35:20Z BottleRock owes security company $217,000JENNIFER HUFFMAN Napa Valley Register
June 25, 2013 6:15 pm  • 

Seven weeks after the event, more debt from the BottleRock music festival has come to light.

A security company that provided stage security staff for the five-day festival is owed $217,000, said a company representative. To date, a rough estimate of the amount owed to vendors who have spoken publicly tops $1.78 million.

Christy Feener, vice president at NES West of Rocklin, said festival organizers owe the business the six-figure sum for the work of approximately 150 staffers at BottleRock.

“We’ve never gotten a dime,” said Feener. The manager said she was given two checks from BottleRock organizers, one on opening day of the festival and one two days later. The first was 50 percent of what NES estimated it would be owed, and the second check was half of the remaining half owed.

By the Monday after the festival had concluded, both checks had bounced, she said.

Feener said that festival co-founders Bob Vogt and Gabe Meyers then assured her that she would get paid two weeks after the festival or “in another few weeks.” The last promised date was June 14, but NES remains unpaid, she said.

On Tuesday, Vogt said that he is in regular communication with the security company. He cited conversations with John Langenstein, vice president at NES East.

“He is supportive and confident we are going to take care of our obligation with them,” said Vogt.

Langenstein, based in Pennsylvania, could not be immediately reached for comment on Tuesday afternoon.

Vogt said he had no comment regarding the two BottleRock checks written to NES West that were reportedly returned for insufficient funds.

Feener described herself as “very concerned” about the situation.

“We all know that when you do a first-time festival things can go a little crazy,” Feener said. “We were willing to work with them if we had received a good-faith payment.” However, “that’s a big chunk of money” left unpaid, she said.

“We are hoping that they’ll come up with a solution before we have to take any further steps, but it’s not looking very promising,” Feener said. “We’re now looking into other options,” including a possible lawsuit, she said.

Last week, bus company Bauer’s Intelligent Transportation sued BottleRock organizers for $524,239 in unpaid bills. The International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees Local 16 stagehand union has filed a grievance against organizers for $630,000 in unpaid wages.

“I have been in contact with the Napa Police Department” about the bounced checks, Feener said. While she has not yet filed a complaint with police, “they are aware” of her situation, she said.

Napa police Capt. Jeff Troendly could not be reached for comment for this story by late Tuesday afternoon.

“It’s crazy. I have been in this business 28 years. We have done events across the country. This has never happened to me,” Feener said. “Come up with a payment plan,” she urged festival organizers. “Give me something now. Give me a token. Anything. And let’s move forward.”

It’s too bad, because the festival went fairly well, she said. “It’s just unfortunate that people got in over their heads.”

“We’re waiting for the white horse to come in and rescue us and it’s not going to happen. It’s getting ugly.”

John Neumann, owner of Neumann Enterprises, a limousine, valet and parking service, was more optimistic. Neumann’s company was the parking vendor for the festival. He’s been paid about 25 to 30 percent of what he is owed, he said.

The business owner wouldn’t say what that total amount was or how many employees he had working at the festival, only that he had “a big staff” that worked for five days controlling 10 parking lots.

“I don’t want to badmouth anybody,” Neumann said. “I don’t want to be that guy that doesn’t come back next year” to work at the next BottleRock, he said.

At the same time, “I’ve been in business 20 years and this has never happened,” he said. Not being paid the full amount “hurt me but it’s not going to put me out of business,” he said. “We’re able to get through it.”

The city of Napa issued its final invoice to BottleRock in mid-June, said Recreation Supervisor Kelly Abernathy. BottleRock’s bill for city services totaled $369,518.

Of that, $262,789 has been paid, Abernathy said. The remaining $106,730 is due July 11.

At the end of May, Napa Valley Expo CEO Joe Anderson said BottleRock’s total bill would be more than $752,000. As of May 28, the Expo had received about $442,000.

The balance was due on June 24 and has not been paid, Anderson said on Tuesday morning. He will report at Wednesday’s fair board meeting that BottleRock organizers are in contract negotiations “with a partner that looks like they will bail them out,” Anderson said. “I’m very hopeful they are going to take care of business. Only time well tell.”

The California Highway Patrol has been paid in full by BottleRock, said Officer Anna Paulson.

BottleRock organizers had also said as much as $1 million would be donated to a list of charities at the festival’s conclusions.

On Tuesday, Vogt said that his main objective was “to get anybody that’s owed money paid.” Expect an announcement “fairly soon” about new investors in the festival, he said.

In addition, “we are expecting a very large amount of money” from Cindy Pawlcyn and Sean Knight of CP Cooks, the food and beverage vendor for the festival, Vogt said.

BottleRock organizers and representatives from CP Cooks are in a dispute about the money owed to the festival.

According to Vogt, after a $1 donation per drink was earmarked for charities, BottleRock was to get 67 percent of the net from food and beverage sales. That money should cover what the festival still owes vendors, Vogt said, “If not, very close.”

Vogt would not say the total amount owed to BottleRock vendors.

Pawlcyn and Knight continue to dispute Vogt’s account. “We’re not withholding money from BottleRock,” Knight said earlier this month.

Reached Tuesday, Pawlcyn said she was abiding by a confidentiality agreement and declined to comment further. “I wish I could say something. We are working on it and we are trying to move it forward,” she said.

A number of other BottleRock vendors, including Mecaela Miller, the wine and food partner liaison with WillPower Events and BottleRock Napa Valley, declined to be interviewed for this story.

Copyright 2015 Napa Valley Register. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

(49) Comments

  1. napablogger
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    napablogger - June 25, 2013 6:50 pm
    stick a fork in it, they are done

    now someone is talking about criminal charges for bounced checks? is that a crime? I guess it is.

  2. tommerle
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    tommerle - June 25, 2013 10:19 pm
    The take away from this travesty is the gullibility of the parties owed money. A kind of greed got in the way of sound judgement. From the beginning it seemed improbable, so why wouldn't the vendors etc. require a bond or insurance or payment from some well heeled 3rd party in some sort of escrow account. Why didn't they allow for a major shortfall due to inexperience. In a way it resembles what has happened in Greece (or Wall Street). The banks, seeking certain revenues, ignored the potential for nonperformance. As with the banks and Germany they have brought this on themselves. A fool and his money are soon parted.....
  3. Unionrabblerowser
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    Unionrabblerowser - June 25, 2013 10:59 pm
    More so for a "business "
  4. FAndrews
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    FAndrews - June 26, 2013 12:26 am
    And the list of debtors keeps growing. So here's more interesting information, where is the money from the Macklemore & Ryan Lewis concert? This was supposed to be a special benefit show for the BottleRock Napa Valley non-profit partners. All attendees were encouraged to make an additional contribution. Donations AND a percentage of the proceeds from ticket sales will support the launch of Autism Arc and The City of Napa Parks and Recreation Foundation for Recreation. Here is the interesting twist … Bob Vogt founded Autism Arc as well as Autism Chords. I'm curious why both non-profits were founded by Vogt and both are allegedly to receive money from BottleRock, they are both listed as non-profit recipients. So on top of the silent auction and eBay sales that was supposed to go to non-profits, now we have money from the May 8th, first day of BottleRock that was supposed to be donated as well. This is all not looking well for BRNV. Where is the non-profits money Bob & Gabe?
  5. FAndrews
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    FAndrews - June 26, 2013 12:28 am
    Yes, napa blogger writing bounced checks is a crime. Depending on the amount of the bounced checks, it can either be a misdemeanor or a felony. I believe the checks that BRNV bounced qualifies them for the felony range.
  6. Jane Esters
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    Jane Esters - June 26, 2013 7:25 am
    I have a question: "...organizers are in contract negotiations “with a partner that looks like they will bail them out,” Anderson said...."

    If you're a seasoned, shrewd investor your motivation is of course profit. In this case probably a large percentage of the equity of the company. If there is no current equity (and I think we can all agree there is none), then any investor is interested in future equity. Further, no competent investor is going to invest in the future equity of a business without assurances that there will be a future. Are you following my logic? Either the promoters are lying or they have a tangible, working and LIVE plan for the return of Bottle Rock. If I was an investor there is no way in the world I would invest in another show without signed permits, a booked venue and any number of guarantees, signed contracts and other agreements - something that seems extremely unlikely considering the credibility of the organizers. So what is going on?
  7. stef5150
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    stef5150 - June 26, 2013 8:26 am
    Funny, the CHP got paid in full. How 'bout that?
  8. NAPAsince1976
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    NAPAsince1976 - June 26, 2013 8:28 am
    I think we can agree this has gone from a civil matter to a criminal matter. Is the District Attorney investigating this? The event is looking like a con game. Honestly, how many contracts and "promises" were made that were broken? As to the non-profits established by the promoters; well they are non-profit because the directors (promoters) probably paid themselves, that's why they are called non-profits, all the money gets spent :). And about looking for investors to bail out the past show.....just a ruse to but the the creditors off for a while. So, where did the money go? Into their pockets? I recall that in honest accounting principles the owner equity and profit are the last in line. The thought previously expressed that working for a wage and not getting paid is a risk the worker takes is rubbish.
    Report Abuse
    MICHAEL P WILSON - June 26, 2013 8:32 am
    I 100% Agree With Jane Esters and Tom Merle next stop BK
  10. NapaFacts
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    NapaFacts - June 26, 2013 8:34 am
    Looks like the Police have no choice but to launch a criminal investigation. Writing bad checks above 10,000 dollars is a felony,
    There is no way there will be a BottleRock 2014.
    This has become a hugh black eye on the town.
    I notice the Sheriff was paid in full. Does anybody know how much?
    The take away from this event is no longer about music, but about debt and investigation.
  11. NapaFacts
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    NapaFacts - June 26, 2013 9:12 am
    NaAPasince 1976, It looks like a criminal investigation has to be launched at this point.
    If the authorities were paid in full for security services, and then fail to investigate this debacle, then it will look might suspicious and the media will continue to cover this story.

    In all fairness, it could be a "dreaming too big for their breeches" situation. But teh Register writer was obviously making it clear that the Napa Sheriff Dept. Was paid in full.

    This is a full blown nightmare for the city of Napa's image. Very sad
  12. Napa
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    Napa - June 26, 2013 9:17 am
    You took the words right out of my mouth "Napa Facts" since the Register censored my first remarks, There will indeed be NO Bottle Rock 2014!!!!! The gentlemen organizers seem to be in a lot of hot water and it's going to take a miracle to get them out.
  13. singerandasong
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    singerandasong - June 26, 2013 9:42 am
    Look up the Napa Parks & Recreation Foundation on the internet. Up until just recently their website was on the City of Napa's website and gave one the impression that there was a direct link to the City. Look at who the Chair of the foundation is and I believe you will find what is a possible conflict of interest. I find that it is very interesting that now the blank has hit the fan that the City is seemingly trying to cut all ties to the non-profit.
  14. FAndrews
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    FAndrews - June 26, 2013 9:54 am
    One would hope the District Attorney is investigating this and if he's not perhaps its time to bring in State and/or Federal authorities. Collecting money for a non- profit and not disbursing the money is fraud. I'm sure those items that were in the silent auction were solicited by the non-profits and donated with the understanding that the money would go to the non- profits. Using that money to pay BRNV debts is tantamount to stealing,
  15. vocal-de-local
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    vocal-de-local - June 26, 2013 10:01 am
    I'm becoming more and more suspicious about non profits by the day.

    One question I have is why someone would set up two non profits, Autism Chord and Autism Arc? Isn't that redundant or do these two non profits serve different needs?

    As someone suggested above, non profits become non profits when those at the top make sure all the money is spent. But what if that money is spent on huge salaries? Plus, there's a legal tax evasion thing going on that's tolerated in the name of "good deed".

    Maybe there is sincerity to these non profits and it's not about legal tax evasion and spending all the money. I sure would like to know the answer. But I think, in many non profit situations, it's all about making money for a few at the top and paying low salaries at the bottom in the name of "good deed". Seems manipulative to me.

    Not only that, but 'non profit' is often used as Trojan horse to gain broader support.

  16. publiusa
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    publiusa - June 26, 2013 12:10 pm
    Mr. Barry Martin, Napa city spokesman also got his $5,200 up front for his theater production too. Police power and influence apparently only works with cash up front
  17. VogueLaGalere
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    VogueLaGalere - June 26, 2013 12:41 pm
    There are enough facts here to state a prima facie case of intent to defraud.

    "Calling Gary Lieberstein, where are you?" in the voice of "Car 54 -- Where Are You" from the ancient television series,_Where_Are_You%3F
  18. TStuart
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    TStuart - June 26, 2013 1:49 pm
    I don’t know where the idea that the Napa Sheriff’s Office was “paid in full” comes from, but it is incorrect. In the interest of public safety and standing mutual aid agreements with the City of Napa, the Napa Sheriff’s Office had additional personnel working that week.
    The Napa Sheriff’s Office did not enter into any agreements with BottleRock. The Sheriff’s Office did not bill BottleRock for any of our services. The Sheriff’s Office has not received any compensation from BottleRock, and there is no compensation due to the Sheriff’s Office from BottleRock, or the City of Napa.

    Captain Tracey Stuart, Napa Sheriff’s Office Public Information Officer

  19. FAndrews
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    FAndrews - June 26, 2013 3:31 pm
    Napa Arc was formed 11/19/2012 and Autism Chords was founded 3/5/2013.
  20. FAndrews
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    FAndrews - June 26, 2013 3:33 pm
    So then did the taxpayers foot the bill for the additional personnel from the Sheriff's Department?
  21. publiusa
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    publiusa - June 26, 2013 4:15 pm
    To VDL. you're on to the non-profit scam. The term non profit come from IRS regs 501c3 and c4. They mask themselves as charitable or educational institutions and can have any number of employees and administrators at any salary and benefits they choose to pay. And donors can deduct contributions to them from their income tax. Here's the scam...the tax deductible donations divert taxes from worthy causes like fixing bridges and roads and make these non-profits into tax paid entities. It's kind of like the Land Trust that buys land at low prices from people who write off the development rights for tax shelters...then the Land trust denies access to the very tax paying public which subsidizes this scam.
  22. singerandasong
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    singerandasong - June 26, 2013 4:17 pm
    You obviously know how to research nonprofit organizations. Please look up Foundation for Napa Parks and Recreation. Then look up the chairperson. I thonk you will find it very interesting. Then share.
  23. VogueLaGalere
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    VogueLaGalere - June 26, 2013 5:49 pm
    What was the source of funding for the "additional personnel working that week"?

    How much was spent by your office as additional expenditures related to Bottlerock?
  24. hubble
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    hubble - June 26, 2013 5:52 pm
    You betcha! This seems to have been ALL about having OTHERS pay for YOUR stuff. What a deal. And taxpayers are the best suckers of all since they have NO VOICE in it. The fix was in.
  25. hubble
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    hubble - June 26, 2013 5:55 pm
    The note from the Napa Sheriff's PIO confirms it--the taxpayer foots the bill, apparently just for the heck of it. Mutual aid agreements??!!! That usually comes into play during emergencies, not during flim-flamming rock festivals planned well in advance. Who does the sheriff's office think they're kidding?!
  26. publiusa
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    publiusa - June 26, 2013 7:47 pm
    Does the fact that the theater program managed by city spokesman Barry Martin took money from Bottle Rock, jeopardize the community's ability to manage the fallout and failure in the aftermath of BR? What about if BR comes back for 2014? Will Mr. Martin be involved again?
  27. Old Time Napkin
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    Old Time Napkin - June 26, 2013 7:52 pm
    Looks to me that the taxpayers footed the bill for NPD and NSO. Interesting that a city councilman is the chair person for the Napa Recreation Foundation. Seems to me if he voted to approve Bottlerock he had a clear conflict of interest., especially if he and the foundation were promised money by the promoters. Seems to me that Mr. Sedgely needs to be asked some serious questions about his involvement with this situation. If the Bottlerock organizers issued checks that were dated on a day when there was insufficient funds in the account, they clearly committed a crime. There was a clear intent to defraud if this was the case. Somebody needs to be charged with fraud on the check case. This is getting real interesting each day.
  28. Jane Esters
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    Jane Esters - June 26, 2013 8:10 pm
    One of my very earliest concerns was that our city leaders failed us. They stood by and pretended that because the State owned and operated the fair grounds they were 100% powerless to stop this event. I knew that this could not be true, that there had to be some form of checks and balances. Sure, the state owns the acres that make up the park, but our city controls everything around it. Now my concern is not only did they lie to us as residents about the level of control they had, but they actually actively participating in this mess. Did our city leaders actually waive the appropriate fees and bonds? Did they make financial concessions and take unreasonable risks with our city funds? I hope that if they did it comes out and we hold the appropriate entities accountable. It sure would explain why they are so silent about all of this. Hasn't anyone noticed that no one in the city has make a public statement of any kind about this mess? Not a peep from anyone. Hmmm.
  29. FAndrews
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    FAndrews - June 26, 2013 9:48 pm
    I connected the dots . . . and wrote a comment but apparently the newspaper did not publish it. That seems a little peculiar, it's public information. I'll try posting it again but there is definitely a conflict with the City and non-profits. Interesting that Mr. Barry Martin is mentioned but they did not post the other one. Time to start a letter writing campaign to Federal and State agencies. I'll try and post addresses, this can't be swept under the carpet.
  30. napa1957
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    napa1957 - June 26, 2013 10:08 pm
    Answer to your first question...NO. Second question...there isn't going to be a BR next year, at least not promoted by this years people. Third question...He was never "involved" this year. His theater company recieved ticket funds. Let it go for goodness sake!
  31. FAndrews
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    FAndrews - June 26, 2013 10:14 pm
    So Jane Esters, guess who issues permits for Special Events in Napa . . . , that would be Parks and Recreation. So you can go on their website and see all of the hoops you have to jump through to get a permit for a special event and one that needs street closer is even more intense. I'm not sure that all of that was done with BRNV. Where does the Mayor and City Council weigh in on this?

    Yup, I agree Old Time things are getting interesting and I'm digging a little deeper.
    Hubble I agree with you as well, we work hard for our money and as taxpayers should not have to foot the bill for ANY of BRNV.

  32. napablogger
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    napablogger - June 27, 2013 12:03 am
    They have confused the Napa Sheriff's office with the CHP. BRNV hired the CHP, not the Sheriff's. The figure I recall from earlier articles was $240,000 which was paid to the CHP.
  33. je1466
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    je1466 - June 27, 2013 7:40 am
    That is so true. Even when I went to the city meetings the few city leaders there just sat there and said nothing. Not a word from anyone. Hey Mayor, are you even working for us still? City Manager? Council? Anyone on the job? I am going to go out on a limb here and speak for the residents of the city. I think we all want a public comment. We're paying you still right? I don't care if your marching up First St. waving a "BottleRock 2014" sign or trying to get the two promoters thrown out of town, I believe we'd all like a comment as to were we stand as a community. Jane is right and she raises real questions. Are you actually working in our best interests? Did you screw up? SAY SOMETHING. Thanks.
  34. Old Time Napkin
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    Old Time Napkin - June 27, 2013 8:22 am
    So the extra law enforcement was paid time and half with taxpayer funds to have extra security and traffic control for Bottlerock. Don't forget that American Canyon PD is part of the Sheriff's Office and I'm sure Am Can also paid some overtime. I also suspect that the Napa City Street Department paid employees overtime to put up traffic controls (barricades, signs, etc) for Bottlerock. Perhaps the city should let us know how much taxpayer money was spent on overtime for ALL employees concerning Bottlerock. Inquiring minds want to know prior to the next election. The silence from city hall is deafening.
  35. publiusa
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    publiusa - June 27, 2013 4:29 pm
    Yes the silence is deafening. We used to have a city spokesman who would come in and blow smoke about the matters regarding the city. What happened did he get fired?
  36. napa333
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    napa333 - June 27, 2013 8:08 pm
    On channel 7 news tonight 6/27/13, the caterer from Point Richmond who fed the entertainers, stage hands and other assorted people associated with brnv and is owed $185,000.00 has not been paid and might lose his business because of this. Yeah, Vogt and Meyers are real stand up guys. These two are supposed to be successful businessmen, I would suggest you dig into your pockets,sell your homes or whatever else you need to do to take care of your obligations and then you might be considered stand up and honest guys. Until then your just a couple of con artists.
  37. singerandasong
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    singerandasong - June 27, 2013 10:33 pm
    I just watched the video and I am very disgusted and sickened. I have from the beginning been very skeptical that the event could be pulled off successfully. However, I thought that the promoter's hearts were in the right place and admired them having a vision and seizing the moment. We need more people with that can do entrepreneurial spirit. Now this poor guy who thought he had made the big time by being the caterer to the stars of BottleRock is now faced with the possible loss of his business. This is just the latest in a growing list of people not to be paid. Whether it is just poor planning or just arrogant disregard for others what the promoters have done is appalling. I have actually felt sorry for them that they dreamed so big and have fallen so low. However, this behavior combined with the fact they keep trying to shift blame has taken away my compassion. Here's the link
  38. jenriley2
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    jenriley2 - June 27, 2013 11:36 pm
    If the City isn't listening to us, maybe the state will. It might be time for an old fashioned phone call or letter.
    Clearly, the Fair board and City Council are not interested in representing the best interest of the voters and tax payers. This reeks of back door politics and political favoritism. Who authorized that tax payers should pay for law enforcement assigned to the festival? How many days, weeks, months are we going to wait to get past due money for the fair and city services? BottleRock was over 6 weeks ago. When is the magic money man coming to their rescue?

    Secretary Karen Ross
    California State Board of Food and Agriculture
    1220 N St., Sacramento, CA 95814
    (916) 654-0466.

    Assemblymember Mariko Yamada
    4381 Broadway Street,
    Suite 108
    American Canyon, CA 94503
    Tel: (707) 552-4405

    Senator Lois Wolk
    Napa-Sonoma Office
    1040 Main Street, Ste. 101
    Napa, CA 94559
    Phone: (707) 224-1990

  39. FAndrews
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    FAndrews - June 28, 2013 3:36 am
    Think of all of the people who this is affecting, now we have businesses that may close because of Vogt and Meyer. This is unacceptable on any level and what's sad is there are still more people and vendors that are owed money and have not come forward yet. This is probably going to be over $2,000,000.00 (Two Million) when all is said and done and that does not include the non-profits share. How many of these outstanding debts are going to fall to us as taxpayers. This is just shameful and I personally am concerned/frustrated/baffled that we have not heard from any City officials. I've started writing letters to my State and Federal officials, if the City of Napa is not paying attention, it's time to get other govermental agencies involved, that will!
  40. je1466
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    je1466 - June 28, 2013 8:05 am
    "Napa promoter Bob Vogt told ABC7 News he can't pay Trivers and others because he's still waiting for at least $9 million in revenues from food and beverage sales. "

    First of all, nine million dollars of NET proceeds from five days of selling food to 125,000 visitors would mean $72 profit per person. We all know that the venues take advantage of the attendees as it relates to prices, but that would be $72.00 per person per day AFTER food and labor costs. (I make this assumption as CP is not complaining about unpaid bills) Assuming that CP paid all money due to the promoters it is probably fair to speculate that if CP had not done their own bookkeeping and handled the money first that they would be on the list of defrauded creditors. A woman like Cindy does not build a massively successful company like CP by stealing and defrauding. Having said that, if there is any truth to Bob and Gabe's claims that CP is withholding money it will likely destroy Cindy's entire empire.
  41. Iceman
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    Iceman - June 28, 2013 10:44 am
    So where are the BR defenders now? Let me see if I've got their arguments right ... it brought money into the city, it was fun, it put Napa on the map as a music hotspot, it's great that someone had a dream and made it happen, and the complainers are just uncultured grumpy hicks. That pretty much covers it, no?

    Unfortunately, I don't think the positives outweigh the numerous people/businesses being hurt by this now. And as for the complainers ... I'd much rather side with uncultured grumpy hicks, than with people who have no problem trampling over people for the sake of money, attention, prestige, etc., no matter how cultured they may or may not be. When so many people are being hurt, there is a clear right and wrong here, and this is flat out wrong.
  42. FAndrews
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    FAndrews - June 28, 2013 12:14 pm
    Actually Bob said he is entitled to 67% of the NET. So lets assume CP doubled her costs in order for Bob to net 9K. That would make her Gross sales of $26,865,672.00.
    1/2 for all of her costs including, labor, food, beverage, tents, tables, stoves, grills, utensils, plates, cups, etc. that would leave NET profit of $13,432,836.00. That means everyone that attended had to spend about $215. CP did not feed the bands or back stage. There were also several trucks that were selling food and beverages as well. A number of people chose to eat at the trucks because of the lines. They collected their own money and have nothing to do with CP Cooks. So bottom line is folk this is just another stall tactic by Bob. Just pay up, peo
  43. FAndrews
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    FAndrews - June 28, 2013 2:39 pm
    Iceman, you are so right. At what point is enough - enough. People ended up being evicted because they were not paid. In an honorable society, you pay your bills. You don't hide behind non-profits and LLC's? Oh wait, maybe you do if you're Bob Vogt. As far as his cronies/defenders/staff/sponsors/investors, I'd be distancing myself, who do you think the Does 1-50 are going to be in the lawsuits? Better start grabbing life vests, this ship is sinking. Bob do the honorable thing, be a man, step up and handle your affairs. Don't drag innocent peo
  44. FAndrews
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    FAndrews - June 28, 2013 2:42 pm
    Continued . . .
    Don't drag any more innocent people into this. You and your family have to continue to live in this community. Have some dignity man.
  45. Flaneur
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    Flaneur - June 28, 2013 6:38 pm
    Publiusa and Vocal de Local are right that non-profits and churches drain money from roads and other governmental expenses, but let’s not attack all donors and recipients. First, donors do not deduct contributions from their TAX, Publiusa, but from their taxable INCOME, so only a fraction of the contribution is diverted from government revenue, maybe 10% or 20%. Puliusa wrote of non-profits in general that “They mask themselves as charitable or educational institutions,” but surely most non-profits are legitimately charitable. For example, the Napa Historical Society and Connolly Ranch seem valuable. Vocal said “there's a legal tax evasion thing going on that's tolerated in the name of "good deed.” Tax EVASION is illegal, so I think you are complaining about tax AVOIDANCE, which is legal (and much admired by corporations and some individuals, including a recent presidential candidate). Some non-profits are scams, and some are inefficient, but many do wonderful, important work.
  46. napa1957
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    napa1957 - June 28, 2013 11:17 pm
    Thank you. We support so many local non profits that I KNOW are doing wonderful, important work. Work that would not get done if we had to rely on our Government(s) to accomplish. That said, there are some that might be looked into. It may be that it's entirely too easy to qualify? I don't know, but I appreciate you bringing this to the attention of this thread.
  47. vocal-de-local
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    vocal-de-local - June 29, 2013 12:19 am
    Flaneur, there's a fine line between tax evasion and tax avoidance.

    I agree that there are legitimate and sincere non profits. Sadly, there are far too many non profits exploiting the generosity of people who do not dig deeper to research the hierarchy of their profits.

  48. vocal-de-local
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    vocal-de-local - June 30, 2013 3:31 pm
    How come the focus is entirely on Bob Vogt. Isn't Gabe Meyers involved too?
  49. glenroy
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    glenroy - July 02, 2013 7:11 am
    Yeap tommerle...I'd say less greed and more the needed the work so they took the contract and keep their toes crossed...but in the end it's over.
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